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What does it mean to be a Smoke Diver?
Do you have what it takes to be a Smoke Diver? Many have tried but been denied by thier own limitations. Yep, thats right, your limitations! I know that firefighting is about team work, but here at the Mississippi Fire Academy, we teach you about yourself as well. The Goals Have Been Set, Can You Measure Up?
The man that says; "I can't" and the man that says; "Ican" are both correct, which one are you?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Charlie on
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Ben, once again you failed to read the whole post. For Smoke Divers, at least GA and MS programs, it's a lifestyle change. You are more conscious of yourself, your training, how you can make your department better, etc. It's not about how little I can spend on training. As you glorify yourself as an multitude of instructors, I fail to see how you miss this concept. You were initially worried about the cost of training and everyone passing. Now you don't appear concerned at the cost of retrofitting your SCBA cylinders with universal rescue adapters. What if that adapter fails? What if you are on scene and someone doesn't have that adapter? The absolute most important piece of equipment is me. I want to have the knowledge to get myself and my crew out of a situation if it arises. However, that is the reason we train on situational awareness and prime recognition decision making. You are correct that most of the hands on skills we teach are taught in every department. However, the intensity at which we do them which helps build experience and leadership is something that is impossible to measure. We're not saying that we are the only way. That is the opposite. You come to Smoke Divers to make yourself better. You learn skills and you learn more about you. You then take that knowledge and impart on others. Not in an air conditioned room eating donuts and telling war stories. You do it by showing others and not quitting when the job gets tough. Since you are so Smoke Diver negative, when did you attend a class? What state program did you attempt? You must have attempted at some time to be an expert on what we do.
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Permalink Reply by Boomer on
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They just dont get it and dont seem to understand like i said you have to experience it to know. This seems a battle that we just cant win with every good point made they continue to come back with "why do it that way, this way seems better to me" attitude twoard the whole thing. List all your facts and cute little quotes but the fact is nothing can prepare you mentally quite like this training deffinatly not sitting in on a number of different classes over a period of time wich would be the only way of "Delivering that training to a larger group of firefighters seems as if it would impact a far wider audience", as you seem to think is a better option.
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I'm sure Ben will tap into his multitude of instructor listings and come up with the same "but nothing changes the stress no matter what kind of shape you are in" excuse. I'm just tired of everyone making excuses of why training should be easier. Then they seem perplexed as to why the firefighter that attened the 2 hour powerpoint on survival got lost in real smoke conditions. Nothing beats hands on. I'm sorry, I'm just aggravated with excuses. As many times as I have fought fire, my little "data" book never helped pull hose. Maybe mine is broke.
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Permalink Reply by John Crandall on
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Sounds as though your FD has a great course for SRT. If possible, I'd like to get some more informatio on that to imlement at my FD here in the Marshall Islands. But I plan on expanding the program so it is on-going team trianing and not just 3 days. Not everyone in the FD is going to want the extra training - but some are willing to protect the whole. Thanks.
mr_crandall@hotmail.com
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I'm just tired of everyone making excuses of why training should be easier.
Charlie, I don't think (without going back through every reply to this topic) anyone has said lets makes trianing easier.
I and others have asked why not up the MINIMUM BA skills training to include this stuff- that way we've got a supposedly better training course, with greater emphasis on safety, endurance, etc which in turn will possibly lessen the chance of someone not being rescued. As I sarcasticallt said in one of my posts, I haven't got the time to wait for 1 of the 700 trained Smoke Divers to come and rescue me- I want my crews to able to do it. If they can't, because they don't have the endurance, the training, etc, then we've all got some problems.
I've even gone as far as finding Smoke Diver videos on YouTube and posting them on FFN for everyone to view, in an effort to get my head around this. To date, no one has given a detailed break down of the curriculum or enough information about the actual content of the course for people to get a better udnerstanding of it and to make an informed decision or comment about the benefits of this training.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Lelaidier on
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Does anyone from Michigan know where this class may be offered at?
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John
"Not everyone in the FD is going to want the extra training - but some are willing to protect the whole. " couldnt have said it better myself and that has alot to do with it I will shoot you an email soon let me get the entire course outline and what NFPA standards each exercise covers back to ya
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Jared, multiple states offer their own version of Smoke Divers. I know that GA, MS and FL all have comparable classes. Ours in GA is 6 full days. The class may say 60 hours but realistically it's much more. We have candidates from WA, IN, FL and OH. Each class there are a few slots set aside for out of state candidates. You stil have to pass the entrance requirements though. The class that Boomer was referring to is offered at his department in GA. At my department we have a similar class called Fire Mole. They are similar to Smoke Divers, just not as long therefore not quite as intense. Also, departments don't have the same resources as the Public Safety Training Center so some things are not done the same. Nevertheless, they are still good classes in their own right.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vito on
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Boomer, I'm trained in smoke diving too. Do I get a patch, no. Is it tough, yes! Where I come from, it is treated as a subject not a course. Everyone entering the fire service whether volunteer or career have been through that process. And have already quit from the very beginning.
Just clarifying that I am not biased.
Now, some of our brothers here wanted to make it a special skill or to elevate it. That's fine with me. I would agree it would be humbling experience to some students in which others have already pointed out. But one thing I find questionable in some training school you got there. The war like attitude. (let me re-post it - stand here and die.). This attitude is disturbing and it defeats the purpose of this course.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Lutan1. You're in the training business, what did you think of this part "Not to mention it takes about 2 to 3 instructors for every 1 student" ? As a qualified and reasonably experienced trainer myself, I find that ratio just a little unbalanced.
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Commercially (As a business owner who has to pay the 3 instructors), very expensive....
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Permalink Reply by Ashley Hampton on
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if i'm correct in the state of Ga(my home state) i can go take this training for free even if i'm a volunteer...as a volunteer in a small community & county we may not have the funding to get the URCs... so i can give a week of my time & make myself a better person(thru challening myself against me not everyone else) & come back to my dept. & help others by sharing what i learned...
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