Who should be in charge of the apparatus while responding to the scene?

This topic comes up when I am assigned to engineer. I believe that the engineer should have the say what goes on inside the cab while the vehicle is in motion. My reason is if your involve in a wreck who is going to be sited. In a case that happen in a county next to mine a quint responding code 3 T-Boned a car a killed the occupants inside. The driver tried in court for the deaths, and the local media covered the story only on the driver. My understanding is that the officer riding in the appropriate seat was not charged or any actions taken. Only internal. With this accident speed was a factor and responding to a general alarm drop. Looking for opinions on this and if some dept's have SOG's on the topic.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on October 9, 2009 at 3:57pm

The Engineer is "responsible" but the Officer is still "in charge"....the difference is a very fine line indeed....In our Department the Engineer doesn't move the rig until he is assurred that everyone has seat belts on(Has dash indicator)...we also donot disembark the vehicle until he/she gives us the OK....the Officer has command..He gives us the instructions and assignments enroute.....Paul

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Permalink Reply by Bob on February 16, 2011 at 3:50pm

True, however the subject is who should run the crew and then scenes and that fall on the person who rides the seat on the right.

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Permalink Reply by FETC on February 16, 2011 at 4:00pm

Your case study is pretty simple. Until they put an extra brake pedal on my side of the truck, like drivers ed. I physically can't control the vehicle speed. If speeding was cited than the driver gets hung.

Now here is another scenario, Driver with NO CDL, Officer with CDL. Accident occurs, Officer is going to lose his license. Another thought, you drive like a jackass the guy on the right, mainly me, can send you home and potentially get you fired. Physical control is the driver of the truck, but overall control of the crew, their actions, maintaining policy and procedures is the officers responsibility.

Sorry but that changes the mentality of, "DAM STRAIGHT BROTHER".

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Permalink Reply by Curtis on February 17, 2011 at 9:42am

The Officer is responsible for the apparatus and crew at all times. That being said, the Engineer may/should refuse risk if it is immoral, against the law or unsafe. We, I say we should not need an SOP to tell us that getting dressed or putting on SCBA enroute is a risky op and should be avoided (how do you do that anyway, while buckeled up?).

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Permalink Reply by Triple J on February 18, 2011 at 12:46pm

My Engineer is completely in charge of the operation of the Engine at all times whether responding, operating at a scene or performing routine inspections. As his Lt., it is completely up to me to ensure that he does all of that in a safe and lawful manner. I let any Engineer working for me know, under no uncertain terms, what I expect of them in terms of keeping my crew and other drivers safe. If people are causing a major distraction, I would stand behind him 100% if he pulled over until the distraction was eliminated. In our Dept. we either get bunkered out prior to getting on the Engine or when we arrive on scene. My department and I have a zero tolerance policy for not using seatbelts. Also, whether an intersection is controlled with traffic preempters or not, all apparatus must come to a complete stop at a red light or stop sign and use caution approaching any intersection, even those with a green light. Many collisions have been prevented by adhering to this. Additionally, even though some may disagree, I think of my responsibility while our Engine is in motion as a Co-Pilot, staying vigilant for hazards that the Engineer may not be able to see from his or her seat.

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Permalink Reply by Mongo on February 18, 2011 at 1:42pm

Not for nothing but if you couldn't see and the signal wasn't working (even if it was) why in the world didn't you come to a stop. If you can't see, for whatever the reason, you shouldn't be going through the intersection blind. If you're the driver, you're in control of the apparatus, the officer blows the siren and honks the horn and keeps the crew in check. You're sole job is to get them there safely and know where the address is.

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Permalink Reply by Mongo on February 18, 2011 at 1:45pm

I've gotten dressed plenty of times in the back, never in the front. I always make sure I communicate with driver when I'm up front about intersections and his view while on the way to the scene. Even if I am just sitting there, the view might be blocked, it's a tight cab.

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Permalink Reply by Mongo on February 18, 2011 at 1:47pm

So airpacks on the outside of trucks or in compartments again?

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Permalink Reply by Firemedic on February 24, 2011 at 2:15pm

I believe that the officer in charge of the truck is just that- In charge. It is his responsibility to ensure that the truck gets to the scene safely and if he has to tell the engineer to slow down, then so be it. He is the ulitmate authority in the truck and is usually the first one to be interviewed if something was to happen. The engineer should be schooled enough to drive safely or they should not be an engineer. His only concern should be driving until they reach the scene.