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Civilian drivers or Confused Idiot's
What is it about civilian drivers. It seems that the minute we get our drivers license's we forget all the rules that keep traffic moving smoothly. Reacently while responding to a MVA( with lights and sieren) I came to a complete stop at an intersection verified that I had control of said intersection and began to proceed. Thank god I was paying attention as a driver dicieded to pass the vehicle to my left. The driver then proceeded to flip me the universal hello as I hit the Airhorn. I think that the OFPC needs to put together a public service anouncment aimed at reminding drivers that when bieng approched either from the front or the rear by an emergencey vehicle that you aree to move to the side and come to a complete STOP.
How often have we all watched a driver pull to the shoulder and slow down but keep on moving. A related incident reacently ocured to one of our paid firefighters while responding to a victim chocking. As he approched the driveway of the residence a driver pulled to the side and proceeded to move blocking the driveway. I just wish the confused idiots behind the wheel would simply obey the laws of the road.
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4 Comments
At 2:03am on October 31st, 2007, RescueEngine4 said…
I know in CT it is state law that upon the notification of an emergency vehicle, whether it be by sirens or lights, you are required to pull to the right and stop. And as we all know that never works.
However sometimes it can be a burden. We run on a limited access highway where we always have MVA's. It is a 2 lane each way "Parkway" and when responding to a call through traffic with no shoulder and no median it becomes tough. We prefer to "Part the sea" having cars in the left lane pull left and the cars in the right lane pull right, this allows the chauffer to know that the drivers have acknowledged the fact an Engine is coming and are yielding and he can proceed right down the center of the roadway. However many times people try to do the "right" thing and pull to the right from the left lane completely screwing up our path of travel. But what can you do. They are doing what they are supposed to do
Now if we could just get Cops to stop parking in front of hydrants at fire scenes I think we might be OKDelete Comment
At 12:24pm on October 31st, 2007, Peter Lupkowski said…
There's a safety video that the RCMP put out a year or two ago that could be used as a public service announcement. If I can find the info I'll get it to you.
In other words it's the same all over brother.Delete Comment
At 7:55pm on November 2nd, 2007, Mary Ellen Shea said…
As I read this, I got to thinking that I can't remember seeing or hearing any kind of public service reminder about pulling over for Fire or Ambulance, at least not in recent history. I was driving with a friend of mine last week and we heard the siren behind us so we moved over to the right lane and then over to the breakdown because the traffic was pretty heavy. The driver behind us threw a fit of epic proportions because we were "in her way" leaning on her horn and swearing like a sailor, completely oblivious to the BA fire truck trying to maneuver around her ---we were near the mall, must have been some important sale going at Macy's. Do you remember when you were a kid sitting in the back seat, and you'd hear the siren and ALL TRAFFIC would immediately clear the road for them? I haven't seen that in a long time.
I think it might be a good topic to discuss with one of our committees, thanksDelete Comment
At 7:14pm on November 3rd, 2007, Jasen Erick said…
Here is the New York State Traffic Law as it reads:
§ 1144. Operation of vehicles on approach of authorized emergency vehicles.
(a) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle equipped with at least one lighted lamp exhibiting red light visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of such vehicle other than a police vehicle or bicycle when operated as an authorized emergency vehicle, and when audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle by siren, exhaust whistle, bell, air-horn or electronic equivalent; the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway, or to either edge of a one-way roadway three or more lanes in width, clear of any intersection, and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, unless otherwise directed by a police officer.
(b) This section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with reasonable care for all persons using the highway.
That basicly means pull over and STOP.
How often have we all watched a driver pull to the shoulder and slow down but keep on moving. A related incident reacently ocured to one of our paid firefighters while responding to a victim chocking. As he approched the driveway of the residence a driver pulled to the side and proceeded to move blocking the driveway. I just wish the confused idiots behind the wheel would simply obey the laws of the road.
Share
4 Comments
At 2:03am on October 31st, 2007, RescueEngine4 said…
I know in CT it is state law that upon the notification of an emergency vehicle, whether it be by sirens or lights, you are required to pull to the right and stop. And as we all know that never works.
However sometimes it can be a burden. We run on a limited access highway where we always have MVA's. It is a 2 lane each way "Parkway" and when responding to a call through traffic with no shoulder and no median it becomes tough. We prefer to "Part the sea" having cars in the left lane pull left and the cars in the right lane pull right, this allows the chauffer to know that the drivers have acknowledged the fact an Engine is coming and are yielding and he can proceed right down the center of the roadway. However many times people try to do the "right" thing and pull to the right from the left lane completely screwing up our path of travel. But what can you do. They are doing what they are supposed to do
Now if we could just get Cops to stop parking in front of hydrants at fire scenes I think we might be OKDelete Comment
At 12:24pm on October 31st, 2007, Peter Lupkowski said…
There's a safety video that the RCMP put out a year or two ago that could be used as a public service announcement. If I can find the info I'll get it to you.
In other words it's the same all over brother.Delete Comment
At 7:55pm on November 2nd, 2007, Mary Ellen Shea said…
As I read this, I got to thinking that I can't remember seeing or hearing any kind of public service reminder about pulling over for Fire or Ambulance, at least not in recent history. I was driving with a friend of mine last week and we heard the siren behind us so we moved over to the right lane and then over to the breakdown because the traffic was pretty heavy. The driver behind us threw a fit of epic proportions because we were "in her way" leaning on her horn and swearing like a sailor, completely oblivious to the BA fire truck trying to maneuver around her ---we were near the mall, must have been some important sale going at Macy's. Do you remember when you were a kid sitting in the back seat, and you'd hear the siren and ALL TRAFFIC would immediately clear the road for them? I haven't seen that in a long time.
I think it might be a good topic to discuss with one of our committees, thanksDelete Comment
At 7:14pm on November 3rd, 2007, Jasen Erick said…
Here is the New York State Traffic Law as it reads:
§ 1144. Operation of vehicles on approach of authorized emergency vehicles.
(a) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle equipped with at least one lighted lamp exhibiting red light visible under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of such vehicle other than a police vehicle or bicycle when operated as an authorized emergency vehicle, and when audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle by siren, exhaust whistle, bell, air-horn or electronic equivalent; the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway, or to either edge of a one-way roadway three or more lanes in width, clear of any intersection, and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, unless otherwise directed by a police officer.
(b) This section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with reasonable care for all persons using the highway.
That basicly means pull over and STOP.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I think your right. Once you get that card that says you can drive, the rules fail to apply anymore. I think if we were to partner more with Law Enforcement we would be able to have some enforcement. Watch a police officer with lights and siren, they pull over in a heartbeat. Perhaps if they instituted a harsher penalty (and spread the word) and enforced it, we would have less problems. However, we are firefighters. We are used to making split second decisions based on training, and the outcome is generally favorable. Drivers have no training. (accept when they are under 18) Civilian drivers when they look in their rear view mirror have a split second to decide what to do. Pull left, pull right and my personal favorate, slam on the brakes and stop right there. Nothing spells love like a minor bout of whiplash because the idiot in front of you jacked the brakes on instead of completing the turn into the breakdown lane. Just last week we had 2 drivers in front of the ladder responding to a possible dwelling fire. The front driver saw and heard us (don't know how you couldn't) and pulled to the side. The driver immediately in front of the ladder, beeped their horn, flipped off the first driver while PASSING him!! This moron, didn't pull over at all for the ladder. It is morons like this that cause the MVA's. As often as we are held liable for apparatus accidents, I also believe that unpredictable drivers don't help matters any at all. The only thing we can do as drivers is to stop when we are supposed to, and to ensure you drive to the conditions of the road.
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Permalink Reply by Jasen Erick on
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I think another issue we are starting to have to deal with is the increasing sound insulation of new vehicles. I reacently was traveling with a friend in his new Ford F250, with the windows rolled up the XM radio and A/C on we didn't hear the ambulance that passed us on the opposite side of the road even though we had pulled to the right and stoped. I'm not so sure that had the ambulance been behind us that we would have known it was there without looking in the rear view mirror. This and kids rideing with thier radios blaring (something most of us did at that age) is another factor that we wil have to battle with as time progresses. I think Mary and Engineco319 are also on the right track OFPC has alot of legislative pull, and the local police agency's need to help out with this. I mentioned FASNY only as a starting point that many of us have access to. I have myself already contacted both my local representitive and those in Albany. But this would only benefit NY state Fire Dept. OFPC would have a national impact. We need to keep this going and definitly get the ground work in place to get this project off to a fast start.
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As you stated a great point of not being able to hear with modern transportation's soundproofing, but however I believe that drivers education 101 states to check all mirrors on a consistant basis. You should be observing not only the road ahead, but whats to the left, the right, and behind you. You pointed out that you had pulled over, so the driver in this case did as they should. I just wish we could use the KISS method to broadcast a message to everyone out there driving to pay attention! (Keep It Simple Stupid) As we have all seen with other public service announcements, it goes in one ear and right out the other.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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When you consider all of the distractions that we have allowed in vehicles over the years, it is no wonder that our motoring public basically ignores emergency vehicles. They have also been told over the years that their time is precious, that they always have somewhere that they need to be, no one is more important than they are, Society has dictated that there is no "downtime" and that laws are merely suggestions and if you DO get a ticket, get a good lawyer and they will beat it for you.
My personal favorite as I write this is the new Kentucky Fried Chicken commercial where they have come up with a box that houses your chicken strips and THREE sauces so that you can DUNK AND DRIVE without spilling.
And to think I was worried about getting ketchup on my shirt from a cheeseburger.
Accidents have gone up, the crashes are becoming more violent because of excessive speed, many are without insurance or drivers' licenses and states keep passing laws to raise speed limits.
We are literally on a collision course.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Some time back I started a similar discussion, because very few people seemed to pull over to let me pass. I was particularly upset because one driver almost ran into me coming the opposite way, because HE was passing someone else who had pulled over.
This is a good follow-up discussion. All great points mentioned here.
Maybe it is time to start up some ad campaigns to educate the public about what to do when an emergency vehicle passes. Use the same techniques that were used in NYS to educate the public about using seat belts.
You know, we may be assuming too much, that drivers know and retain all of the rules of the road after they pass the written drivers test.
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Permalink Reply by John Mc. on
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I HATE WHEN PEOPLE PULL OVER YET KEEP DRIVING! Im just starting to drive the fire trucks but even when i respond to a call with blue lights in my POV people feel that just because they are half on the road and half on the shoulder yet continue to do over the speed limit i can pass them! HELLO!? But ot wouldnt hurt them to follow the law once in awhile which is plain and simple to pull completely off the side of the road and stop your vehicle. The company im at just had a fire call earlier today and it was for wires and the pole was on fire. Nothing much we could do but we had our trucks on scene with lights but people went flying by the truck at speeds between 40-50mph! Now what if we were working and the retard didnt see us?
And i think Joe has a pretty good idea that could lead to some good stuff like why not make a refresher class for all drivers? Pretty much what to do in a situation where an emergency vehicle is behind you, vehicle safety, the right away rule (which seems like no one pays attention to anyway LOL) and for the people that take it why not give them an reward or something like lower insurance upon completion of the class like from the vehicle safety and operations classes that emergency personel take?
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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I think greater enforcement of existing laws would have the effect of getting more drivers to pull over and stop when approached by a Emergency Vehicle on a run.
Why not have the Police Department, or even a state agency (Highway Patrol, State police, DOT, etc..) install bumper cams on the front bumper of Emergency apparatus, similar to the aggressive driving cams used in the Washington, D.C. area, and mail drivers who Fail to Yield a ticket. If enough drivers get tickets for this behavior, and tell their family, friends, co-workers about it, people will begin obeying the law.
Sure reward is great...when it works. But insurance companies have been offering reduced rates for drivers who complete a Defensive Driving Course for years (where this very rule of the road is addressed) and still people fail to yield to Emergency Vehicles responding to a call.
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I think the bumper cam is a good idea, but the problem I see is that peple do pull over for police cars. It's the fire trucks/vehicles and ambulances that would need the cameras. And that would present some legal difficulties in terms of non-LEOs operating LE type equipment on non-police vehicles, for instance.
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That's what I meant...install the camera box on the front bumper of Fire and EMS apparatus. The way to do it to avoid the legal issue with non-LE personel operating the equipment is to have the LE types do it all.
The LE Agency would install the box and seal it with the camera inside. The camera would come on when the engine was dispatched and operate while the rig was enroute to the call, then turn off. This would all be contolled by a small computer inside the box which would also record the data on a hard drive. Then periodically (once a week in some places, once a month in others, daily in metro areas) the LE Agency would download the data and process tickets. FF/EMS personel would have absolutely nothing to do with the process.
It would work in a similar fashion to speeding cameras, or red light cameras, only on a mobile platform.
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Can't.
Firefighters out East-New Jersey, I think-sued for hearing loss!
Q's are "too noisy".
Art
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