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Volunteers with Lights and Sirens
What do you think, should volunteer firefighters be allowed to have and use lights and sirens in their POV ? Should only the Chief an ASST. Chief be allowed to have them ?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Whit Ragan on
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I think that volunteers should use lights and sirens in there POV. I know several people that have abused there ability to have lights, but all have been punished. I personally have lights and siren in my POV but i only use mine on the highway and on the out skirts of town.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Art, here is a slice of our procedure for POVS:
BACKGROUND
When members respond to calls, they must arrive at an emergency scene or the fire station safely in order to be of any help to the public. This statement is also true of all aspects of vehicle operation when returning from an emergency incident.
It is imperative that all members understand that their personal vehicles are not emergency vehicles, except for the Chiefs’ vehicles, and therefore are not afforded any exemptions or special privileges under state law. Any member observed breaking any traffic laws or operating their personal vehicle in an aggressive or unsafe manner may be subject to disciplinary action including suspension, loss of driving privileges and withdrawal of blue light card.
PROCEDURES
1. All members responding in their personal vehicle should wear seat belts while responding to, and returning from, emergency incidents. All members are reminded that the V&T law requires all front seat passengers to wear seat belts, and there are no exemptions from this law when in your personal vehicle responding to an emergency incident.
2. Personal vehicles are not emergency vehicles and are not permitted the same exemptions to New York State Vehicle and Traffic laws. Therefore, members are reminded that they should abide by all applicable laws while responding to and from alarms.
3. Active members of the department are authorized by law to display a blue light when responding to an emergency. All blue lights should be approved by the Fire Chief, with a blue light card issued.
4. Blue lights are also known as “courtesy lights” and are a visual display asking other drivers to allow a volunteer firefighter to pass them upon approach. They are not a demand for right of way, and do not permit the driver of a personal vehicle to illegally pass or speed up to overtake other vehicles.
5. Members arriving at the fire house or incident scene must use caution while approaching and parking their vehicles, and shall always yield right-of-way for fire and emergency apparatus exiting the fire house, responding to or arriving at the scene.
6. Members following fire apparatus in their personal vehicles shall not pass the apparatus unless directed otherwise by the apparatus driver.
7. At an incident scene, all personal vehicles shall be parked on the same side of the road as fire apparatus unless directed otherwise by Fire Police or other Line Officer. Keys should be left in vehicles close to the scene in case they need to be moved to accommodate additional incoming apparatus. If the member is unable to leave the keys in the vehicle, the member should give the keys to the Incident Commander.
8. Personal vehicles should be parked far enough away from an emergency scene so as not to impact any potential level of operations.
I do NOT think volunteers should be allowed to use lights/sirens in their vehicle. I have been driving with red light and siren for several years as a chief officer and deputy coordinator, and I have found many instances in which people just don't pull over. If you're not a police car or a fire truck, you are nothing to these people. The proliferation of red light and siren use for all volunteers would further desensitize the public. Or so it seems to me.
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Permalink Reply by rav3375 on
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i am from greatvalley ny amd we can run blue lighte onle in less you are one of the cheif then you can run a red light or if you are als and your cheif aproves you to run a red light then you can and we cen run green lights as emt to but only if the cheaf aproves it
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Permalink Reply by Chris Filyaw on
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If the volunteers need to be there to fight the fire or work the wreck and have training like EVOC or EVDT they should have the proper lights and siren in the POV. The chief and asst chief are command. They most likely won't be first in and don't need the lights and siren as much as the people who accually will be doing the responce and work. Just my take on it
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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Lights and sirens are connected to the accelerator, brake pedal and steering wheel by a human brain.
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Permalink Reply by catfish on
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to all people who think volunteers are stupid can kiss my ass.we do the same things that paid depts do.we cover parts of three different counties and lights and sirens are needed to better our response time.as long as you assume the responsibility of your actions.i have lights and sirens on my pov and have used them to improve my response time because everything is so far away.my community depends on myself and other members on the dept to respond as quickly as we can.ASK YOURSELF IF IT WERE YOUR FAMILY WOULD YOU WANT THE RESPONDERS TO DO ALL THEY CAN TO GET THERE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO SAVE YOUR FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is kentucky state law to run lights and sirens together.not one without the other.plus you have to have a letter from the chief authorizing this,also i have paid for these out of my pocket not the depts.
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Permalink Reply by Kristy Oxholm on
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I have not seen anything in this thread that would indicate that volunteers are stupid. The only reason that the volunteer question comes into play in this discussion is that career firefighters are usually at the station when they are on duty, so the question does not apply.
As volunteers, which I am, we do ourselves a huge disservice when we foster a "volunteer vs. career" attitude. There will always be some things that are different between the two groups. Unfortunately in some areas there is a lot of friction, but when we inject the friction into discussions and issues where it does not belong we make our own bed!
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Permalink Reply by Art Sutherland on
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Thanks Joe. How is my facts starting to look. You did say collect facts.
Art
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You are on the right track, Art. I would also look for non-fatal accident statistics over the last several years, and try to come up with a percentage or rate of accidents per 1000 calls or something like that.
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Permalink Reply by 4RC1 on
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"If you're not a police car or a fire truck, you are nothing to these people. The proliferation of red light and siren use for all volunteers would further desensitize the public. Or so it seems to me."
Jeeze Joe, It must be a NY thing. In NH which is mostly rural, 95% of the poulation is served by VFDs, and they know what Red Lghts and Sirens on a POV mean and generally do their best to pull over for us. Conversly, they do not sit idle if they see someone abusing the privilage and WILL call the police, who will in turn call the fire chief who will at the first opportunity put a boot up the appropriate A$$. Problem children get their permit yanked. With Due respect, its the cars with MA and CT plates and ski racks who seem to not get it around my way.
Should their be rules? of course, are there problems? of course, should there be training? absoultly.
Perhaps, the P.D. Could lend you a dash cam and write some tickets for failure to yeild?
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Permalink Reply by CHIEF Al Porter on
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I'm not sure how everyone runs there dept. or SOGs. But on my dept. I give the ok for a firefighter to run lights and siren. (I'm the chief) I look at there diving record, participation, and there aditude. I have a hand full of guys that run lights. But are dept. covers 36sq. miles. Must of the firfighters live in the township. In my area we don't deal with heavy traffic. So u don't save that much time when are SOGs sats that you will not accede 10 mp over the posted speed limit.
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Wow. It is truly Special to hear some of my Bretheran assert that Vollys with lights are "Nut balls" etc... I notice too that the majority of these folk seem to be on departments that allow them to have lights. To summerize I am seeing a lot of "I'm-ok-to-have-one-but-you-might-not-be"
To adresss much of the issue: Ethier you are safe to drive an emergency vehicle, or you are not. If by training and experience I can operate a Engine safely, why then can I not drive my own vehicle safely? How did we get it that I cannot be trusted to respond to the station with lights and siren, but I can going from?
How about this: When the tones go off, I am a professional responder. I drive one emergency vehicle to the station, and then get into another, better equiped emergency vehicle and then continue to the call. I dont drive one safer than another, I always opperate with DUE REGUARD. I know the other folks on our department do the same. We have had our share of complaints from the public, almost all are minor, and most are just a lack of understanding. Problem children can be spotted fast and can be elimated easily with a proper disapline policy.
Our dept has a 10 over policy, and MANDITORY siren use. (I can hear the gasps) A light without a siren is not much good, otherwise why would the apparatus have both? It is the opinion of our Chief that the siren and lights are to call as much attention to the responder as possible, thus making things safer for all concerned. If (God Forbid) any of us get into an accident while responding, we better have had everything on at the time!
As far as Sheffifs who try to get rid of vol ligths and sirens, obvioulsy he thinks that Vols are not "professionals" (unlike his men). And since when did the P.D. Become the pargons of safe emergency responing?
Years ago I was an EMT on a call department and they had one of those policies where you had to be on the dpeartment for upteen billion years before you could have a red light permit. There were 3 of us on the shift. The call would come in, My two partners would run lights to the station, run the rig out on to the apron, and sit there until I got there flow of traffic five minutes later. What sence did having only SOME of us having lights do? Mind you my day job at the time was on a city 911 ambulance, so it wasn't like I had no experience.
I dont know what would be so magic about a chief that they are ok to have lights and siren but no one else could.
And for dislosure I have a full bar with siren. What I DONT believe in is dashmasters that only flash to front. 360 degrees of warning or nothing
Cheers
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