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Fire Extinguisher Training-Real Fire or Simulator?
I'm curious what everyone else uses. I've always been a fan of real fires. The smoke and the heat, combined with the dry chemical discharge make for some good realism. Plus, you can add props like empty 55 gallon drums as obstacles. Lately I've seen a few different types of simulators out there. I understand that some of these can be used indoors or during inclimate weather, and there is no mess to clean up like with dry chemical fire extinguishers, but do they really provide good extinguisher training? What are your thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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We do a lot of training with our local bussiness's and factories and we always do live burns for them, I really think its the only way for them to get the piont of it. Also I've never seen the simulator.
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Permalink Reply by Devil Doc on
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You don't get the real-world experiance without the real-world training
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Hey Brian,
I'm not sure about using real fire for training where you are also doing any sort of confined space entry. Perhaps I'm being too conservative here but taking unnecessary risks that could hurt someone just doesn't add up. If you are a company officer or higher, remember that you can be personally sued for damages. It's not uncommon in California for Captain's to have liability insurance. I do. If you are going to do live fire training then I personally don't think that it's a good idea to mix it together with confined space entry. It's cool to do training but it's even cooler to make sure no one can get hurt.
What we use is a smoke machine that uses peanut oil, that is non-toxic and does the job of obscuring our vision. Give people the objectives for finding someone while blacking out their masks will get some of the guys adrenaline going.
What you don't want is this...
Another cool link that does some pretty good play by play explanation can be reached by clicking here.
Take care, Mike from Santa Barbara
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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My business has recently purchased a Bullex ITS (Intelligent Training System) and would never go back to any other sort of hot fire training.
There's a number of reasons we went down the path of this unit:
1) Mess- We didn't want all the mess and clean up associated with traditional hot fire training (ie: fuel, water, foam, dry chem poweder, etc).
2) Enviornment- The commercial sector (In our case, our clients) is very quickly becoming aware of the environmental issues associated with this sort of stuff. They don't want to see fuel on the ground, powder and foam being sprayed around, etc. There's training companies out there who are more than willign to dump the run off onto the ground or down the drains, etc
3) Safety- There is NO safety when doing hot fire training with fuel in a tray/drum, etc
4) Hazards- The chances of dry chemical powder causing damage to property is very high. I worked for one training a number of years ago which had legal action aginst them a few times because the paintwork on cars was damaged by the corrosive effect of dry chemical powder
5) Cost- There are no costs associated wit hextinguisher refills, except for water and compressed air
This blurb below is what we have included in our Company Capabilities brochures:
“In our ongoing efforts to do our part in protecting the environment, Total Hazard Solutions has just purchased the I.T.S. Fire Extinguisher Training system.
The I.T.S. (Intelligent Training System) is the world's only live fire, extinguisher training system that does not involve the use of dry chemical powder, CO2 or any other chemical medium.
These systems were designed to train people in the competent use of all types of fire extinguishers, fighting all the common types of fires- class 'A', class 'B' and electrically charged, Class 'E'.
The system has been built by BullEx and they have designed a SmartExtinguisher which emits a spray of atomized water, compressed air and a directional 40 kHz ultrasonic sound wave.
The compressed air and atomized water spray provide the trainee with the visual, audible and physical sensation experienced when discharging a chemical extinguisher, this spray does not however extinguish the fire (real or simulated) developed by the systems.
The directional ultrasonic sound waves emitted from the nozzle of the SmartExtinguisher are detected by a bank of four sensors situated across the systems, these sound waves are converted into electronic signals which are transmitted to a microprocessor within the hand held controller.
The microprocessor analyses these signals and determines exactly where the SmartExtinguisher is directed and if the trainee’s technique and attack on the fire is appropriate for the type of fire that has been selected for the trainee to extinguish. Variable electronic valves constantly adjust the amount of gas sent to the ITS base unit’s burners, simulating a realistic and immediate fire response as determined entirely by the trainee’s use of the extinguisher in the attack on the fire.
The system has four difficulty settings, level 1 for the inexperienced through to level four which typically sets a fire requiring competent operators in a two person attack to successfully extinguish.
The link below will take you to the BullEx web page, please view the videos of this system in use, and remember, if you're serious about not only protecting the environment, but also your employees and assets, talk to us about Fire Extinguisher training on your site.
http://www.bullexsafety.com.au/ITS.asp?p=products&sp=live “
There a few photos on my profile page of this unit in use-
http://www.firefighternation.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?scr...
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I should add that the fire, heat, etc from this unit is real. It just doesn't come with all the safety and enviornmental stuff I mentioned above....
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I'm now thoroughly convinced that if you want to know anything about the latest and most cutting edge approach for the fire service, your the guy to contact. Impressive stuff buddy. ms
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Thanks Mike! It's a great unit, cost a small fortune to purchase at a touch under $12,000.00 (Which would turn a lot of people off) but it has been worth it.
The feedback from clients has been exceptionally positive with two telling us on recent tender bids we won full/pefect points for environment, safety, etc.
I've been invovled in training on a few construction projects which have been under a lot of scrutiny from the "greenies" and associated environmental groups, and they too love it purely from the enviro aspects....
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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The price is quite high, but I can definitely see the advantage over real fire with the mess and subsequent clean-up. Thanks Lutan.
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It is high, and we thought long and hard about it, but from a business perspective, it seemed to be the ONLY option we could take- remember that we're teaching corporate clients, not fire departments...
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I was thinking about my other job where I teach corporate clients myself how to use fire extinguishers. Right now we use live fire training, but I've been looking at the idea of a simulator and this one seems to fit the bill. I just need to educate my boss on the advantages of switching to the simulator.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Buck on
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we do live burning training with fire extinguisher. we like doing hands on training
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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On the enviormental side, our last chief was sooo cautious that we have no on-site refueling or in station oil changes.
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