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Do We Ask Too Much of Volunteers?
Ok this is going to cause an uproar...but I think we ask too much of volunteers.
When I joined back in 1978 we needed at least Fire I in my company which consisted of SCBA training, ladders, hose handling and small tools. We could take other courses, most took Vehicle rescue, hazmat and some officer training courses.
Now I see companies requiring members to have what equals over 100 hours of training within the first year, including monthly in service training.
Now I'm all for training, I used to go to as many fire schools as I could. But then again I was 16 and in high school and had the time. But now we have members who are older (18 at least) and working, have families and responsibilities. Many times I have seen on websites telling people to give an hour a week or whatever time they can. But once they get in they are usually required to get training after training. Once again I'm all for training but how much. Our company has the state hazmat units. Should we require all members to be hazmat certified? Another company has a collapse response unit. Should every member be required to have that training?
Its called volunteer for a reason. I remember being on a call with 7 FFs'. I knew 3 of us were going in. 1 was going to take the hydrant and stay there until the fire was out. 2 were great roof men but don't go inside. 1 was going to talk to the girls across the street. Is that ideal. Most was say not. I say why not. I don't want someone who is not comfortable doing what they don't want to do. I don't want to lose someone because thier forced to so.
The volunteer fire service is dying. Meadville PA Fire and Rescue #39 just closed down for various reason and the equipment auctioned off. One was lack of members with certified qualifactions. I see engines going out with 3 FF's. that extra guy could be at the hydrant or humping hose or thowing ladders instead of a fully SCBA qualifed FF who would be better inside fighting fire.
I might be wrong and will say so if proven wrong. But the service needs every able body we can get.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joshua-Paul Gardner on
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I think we definately rely too heavily on volunteers in Australia, but unfortunately with the size and remoteness of the state i'm from we don't have much choice. It's one of the biggest police, fire and ambulance districts in the world. Each service is totally seperate, in fact the Ambulance service is a private organisation and not state-run.
If it wasn't for volunteers, we wouldn't have a fire or ambulance service in the majority of the state.
The career fire fighters here are generally good working with volunteers, it's only the occasional one that causes grief. They'll even work under a volunteer as an incident or sector commander.
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Permalink Reply by Spider Kramer on
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We have a very strong Volunteer Fire Department yes it is about good training but a lot of it has to do with the good direction of leadership. Recruitment is also vital to the department. I do have several young fire fighters that will go on to other departments fully qualified. But we do also teach the history of the service through Pride and Ownership. These kids know that this is their fire department, Pride has to be handed down not obtained, and you can only get that by sharing things from your tool box to theirs. Any time our Engines are put back into service I never have to say lets wash or wipe down the rigs....they already do it. Its not that the "volunteers" are dying maybe its lack of leadership and failure to communicate with your rank and file. So in closing you really are only talking about (1) department, remember that over 70% of the fire service is all volunteer.
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Permalink Reply by Mongo on
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Kramer,
I completely agree, last night (somehow) I became the Recruitment and Retention leader for our company so I've got to get something organized to get more people in. To be honest, that whole part of pride is something I've always had and always assumed people should just have. But I never thought it needed to be mentioned or taught, I will go at it another way from now on. The history thing to is a very important aspect for new recruits as well, that helps push the pride thing some more.
On another side note, the leadership thing is an issue, when I got the job last night I was given an application that was over a year old, how are we going to get people to join if we can't respond to their application within a year!!!
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Permalink Reply by Andrew on
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I have to admit - I am completely up in the air about this.
Yes, volunteers should have adequate training and resources to obtain the necessary skills to perform the job. But how much time do VOLUNTEERS have?
When I first came in I was working part-time and going to school, but I still completed my trainings, made my calls, and completed my Firefighter I Certification.
Now that I have a full-time job, a daughter, and other responsibilites, it is MUCH harder, especially since the call volume is ever-increasing in my district. Last year we can 2,200 alarms (EMS is integrated). We have about 30-35 members that are ACTIVE, meaning they actually run the calls (the roster shows a lot more, but these others members are either "Life" members, meaning they only need 50 calls per year, or they are exterior). A lot of members don't even like to run EMS calls, and won't do it unless it's completely necessary.
Then we have squad nights - nights in which members are mandated to respond to calls from during a certain window of time (10PM-6AM). Not everyone is mandated, only people with under 5 years within the department. If you think about it then, the new members have a laundry list of things to complete:
-In-House Probationary Training
-Regular Trainings
-Monthly Department Meetings
-Firefighter I Certification
-CPR/AED Certification
-Specific Group Meetings (Ex: By-Law, Fundraiser, ect.)
-Fundraisers
-Make their points/runs
-Squad night (EMS and Fire)
Doing that simultaneously while having a job to afford living here, raising a family, and having some personal time is very rough.
Paid personnel ARE working their job while they're training, so there is no time discrepancy.
I believe we all need the same fundamental training, and then some, but it's becoming a harsh world out there. Wages are stagnant while costs increase exorbitantly. Gas $4.19-$4.59/gallon here, taxes are increasing, the cost of food is increasing, and so on. People with decent jobs are working second jobs just to get by so they can put food on the table for their families.
When it comes to training, are we asking too much? No. I don't think so. Training saves the lives of others, as well as ourselves. Firefighter I was somewhat lengthy (110 hours of classroom and 30 hours of hands-on? [I can't remember the precise numbers]), but I believe it was worth it. I spread the classrooms out while I was working and going to school, and then I busted out the hands-on in two weeks by going everying weekday night for two weeks.
When it comes to asking for other services from volunteers I do believe some departments are asking too much. Fundraisers, meetings, tons of runs - it's definitely a lot. I do the fundraisers that I can. The other night I stood outside for four hours in the middle of the road collecting money during a boot drive. I can't do that often, but I gave the time that I could. We have a haunted house every Halloween. The first year I helped, but it's very time consuming (like 4-6 hours if you're an "actor"), and then construction is a whole other ordeal.
Runs are completely out of control - we have a doctor literally across the street from a hospital calling the ambulance constantly to transport patients. I will literally key in to tell the dispatcher that we're en route to the hospital only to tell them we're there in less than 30 seconds. Every single time I have been there it hasn't even been an "emergency". No, I am not an EMT, but I can distinguish an emergency from some minor backpain. We also get drunk illegal immigrants all of the time from the same area. The last time I went to pick up a guy he was so drunk he couldn't move or talk, and he even had the "John Doe" bracelet on from the hospital from the previous night. Then we have an older timer village that calls us all of the time, too. It's literally a daily occurrence, sometimes more.
What I am saying is that some departments need to cut the fat. People everywhere are abusing the 911 system, which then throws a heavier workload on us, the volunteers. My department is now threatening to kick some people out, and they already have. They recently kicked out a city EMT with years of experience in EMS and firefighting, just for being short 15 runs for the year, yet they are advertising "volunteers needed!" You just threw out a guy that has been in for years, you spent tons of money on gear and training for him, and you throw him out for being short a few runs? It's not cost-effective to be so strict in such situations.
I think that what we are doing right now, at least for training, is fine. Skimming the surface of HazMat is necessary, especially in todays day in age. Everyone should know CPR and the fundamentals of firefighting. The other areas should be toned down to accomodate the current hard times people are enduring everywhere.
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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
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When I joined the guys with my station were on the phone daily asking what the status was on my application. They knew that if they did not stay on top of things my paperwork would get lost in the shuffle. I also keep a notebook with everything that I have sent to the main house. Even while we were waiting for the paperwork to go through its cycle I started going to drills, received my PPE, learning the task performances, started taking first responder classes, doing extra training time at the station so that when my academy rolled around I was ahead of the game. I knew that I would have to miss some classes because of tax season or month end financials. They worked with me on this. Do they ask to much of me? I don't think so. I knew when I signed up that I was going to have to give a lot of my time and energy to training and calls. My family understands this and supports this because they were told at the time of my joining the committment it was going to take.
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Permalink Reply by Cassie on
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Be dedicated yourselves. Have pride in your department. In its professionalism, its high standards, its camaraderie. Make it a pillar of the community. And perhaps it will inspire the rest to do the same. Perhaps it will inspire people to join.
My volunteer department is greatly helped by the fact we are somewhat near a university. But, most of our volunteers give at least 4 hrs of training a week + 1-2 night shifts a weeks + going on a few calls + occasional additional optional training on other nights or weekends. I give probably 30 hrs a week to my fire department. And so do many others. And we'll step up and do more every now and then in a heartbeat if they need additional help for something.
Does it feel like too much? Do I resent it? No. When I need a break, do they let me? Yeah. Is spending time with the department fun? Definitely. Is a lot of our training pretty fun? Yep.
When I joined, I saw the pride, dedication, and closeness of the department and wanted to be a part of it.
And, I think, if a lot is asked of volunteers, don't forget to take care of them... might help balance the demand on them. We have a lady who cooks a full dinner for us every week for our training night (we eat at 11pm, after training of course... otherwise bad things would happen...). We might take the engine to a restaurant after fires or extra trainings for a meal. We have a TV, WiFi, small weight room, and a kitchen for our night shifts. We have an annual Christmas party, and sometimes get a small gift like a waterbottle with the dept logo or a dept hat. It's small rewards for our time.
Just my 2¢.
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Permalink Reply by NOVAFireman on
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Years ago and before going career, I joined a pretty busy VFD and remain there to this day. Even though I was "certified" in another state, and had volunteered in my hometown for a couple of years, there was no reciprocity for some of my certifications.
Given that, I had to get Firefighter 1. Luckily, my new VFD offered a volunteer fire academy. We did two evenings a week, and every other Saturday for 8 hours until we completed the Firefighter 1 & 2 certifications for the state.
While in the academy, I worked a full time job and commuted in one of the nation's top 3 worst rush hour traffic.
It's all about what you want, and what you are willing to commit to.
I wanted it, did it, and it lead me to "take the test" and make it my career.
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Mongo do your self a favor and get the dvd series called "Pride & Ownership" this address many issues that all should see including the officer line right up to the chief. Amazing stuff and what its all about.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Just a clarification, and I know this because its my profession, I am a Fire Inspector/Codes Official for NYS. NFPA standards are "Concensus" standards, meaning they are written by a committee of professionals and volunteers with varying backgrounds, not just professionals as you mention. Some are volunteer fire chiefs or officers, some are citizens like plumbing pros, or contractors or engineers, some are even doctors. Its a diverse group of people that pool their knowledge and experience to come up with standards that can be applied to real life use, than eventually voted on by a general concensus of NFPA members to be written into Law. Its not law until its voted in, but, it is used in court against people and if you do not follow the standards your level or professionalism is questioned.
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That is perhaps the best idea I have ever heard as far as a solution to volunteer training issues. Hats off to you brother.
I agree 100%, volunteers should be a branch of their respective state, and given annual training consisting of 2 weeks fire academy, then monthly mandatory drills required to be a member. This would solve so much and I am for it.
I myself had to get my training the hard way. I am a level II firefighter but had to take several courses to get here because they did not have firefighter I and II when I started. It was Essentials, Initial Fire Attack, Fire Attack II, Ladder Company Ops, Haz-Mat Responder and Technician, Fire Behavior & Arson Awareness, and Firefighter Safety & Survival in order to be grandfathered in as Level II firefighter...But I did it without complaint and continue to this day to take any training I can get my hands on when family and work allow. I was young when I took a majority of my training and had no responsibility other than school and firehouse. Now I have a wife, 4 year old girl and a household to support, but I still manage to get a few classes in here and there.
Its simple...If you want to enter an IDLH atmosphere, you NEED to know what you are doing. This is the reason why the LODD rate for firefighters has been progressively getting smaller, because firefighters are being TRAINED better than they used to be.
When my father first joined he didnt even have any formal training like Essentials or Basic Firefighter, he got trainined by the "First Whips" of his firehouse with the leather lungs, and he made it 35 years and served as Captain of his Engine Company. He used to laugh every time I brought home a new training certificate but was still proud of me.
We have to evolve, and become better at what we do not because we are mandated to, but because we want to provide a better service to the people that trust us and we want to go home to our families, and we LEARN from the mistakes made by our predecessors.
Stay Safe out there everyone.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I agree. Volunteers always complain about not getting respect when they are just as good, but now they don't want to train? My fire academy was well over 1000 hours. That's the basic fire academy alone.
There are some busy volunteer houses that get experience but not many.
If you're going to complain as a volly then at least make up your mind and stay consistant about what it is.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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Hey, they're consistently complaining, isn't that good enough?
I see no problem. If you want to do the job, then train to do it.
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