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European and US Firefighting. Will It Bring Us Forward?
What do you think about combine tactics and stratgy from the u.s and Europe!?i Know you are better in FF (more aggressiv )but we good some good skills on mva ,and Technical rescue
I am Not a noob to us ff (rode along and stuff),i Know both sides!what do you think could we find a good Way to Change Informations!?
Thanks for your help!
Tass
I am Not a noob to us ff (rode along and stuff),i Know both sides!what do you think could we find a good Way to Change Informations!?
Thanks for your help!
Tass
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rossi Paloma on
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Not being a fire fighter myself (architect instead) but involved with our Fire Department quite a bit, I do agree with the exchange of information between US and UK fire fighting techniques, PPE's, various training and tactics. The same thing applies when I do design of buildings. There is so much more we can learn from each other. And being selfish does not help us a bit.
One thing I've noticed that is different between the US and UK are the signs, i.e., exit signs and fire extinguisher locations. And I'm sure construction will also be different, i.e., building materials, codes and what have you.
Sharing all these information will definitely bring us forward. Thanks for the discussion. Great idea!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Tassilo D. on
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Good Point about the Helmet ;) The F1,is more of a try,to get a new helmet to Europe!Alot Departments in France got that Helmet!Here in Germany,only one Department(that i know from) in our Disctrict,has that helmet,looks pretty Future Style ;)The Rest is using more likely the Tradional Style Helmet(the Designe is similar to a WW2 Helmet),we do to! But what i think so far,you Traditional Style Helmets or Retro Helmets,give you a better neck,and Front Protection!Also its way easier to ajust when you put on your SCBA Mask!Thats a big think(helmets) here,but not one Manufacture made it,to provide a new Helmet,that everyone likes ;)I am soon going to buy my own Bullard FXE(Only U.S helmet allowed in Europe,or that bullard added to the Europen market).Would love to wear my Crains Trational Helmet,but no chance for that(NFPA,SAC and so on....)
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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I am reading an excellent book titled "Euro Firefighter" written by an expert UK firefighter. The major differences seem to be with respect to actual truck company work, duties, and designated companies for such tactics. There is an approach to firefighting that often urges beginning from an anti-ventilation stance. Yet there seems to be a trend towards shifting that more along the lines of the US tacticts and strategy.
The other major difference, also being debated, is the use of lower gpm's and smaller handlines with much higher pressure. The one difference I have trouble with is the storage of all folded hose being donut rolled individually, instead of connected and laying in a hose bed.
They have been years ahead of us with respects to accountability and SCBA work.
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What i also found out,we carry way more equipment on our engines,than you do,but your engines are way bigger then ours are!?Why is that!?To me it seems like there is no real storage mangement!? Our Trucks/Engine,got 2 times more stuff on it than you do,it was hard to belive for me,when i first saw one of yours!
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Permalink Reply by Amanda Benton on
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im sorry but i did not know there would be much difference, we are all here for the same reason are we not? I am not quite sure what you mean by this post? i myself have not rode along on both sides. im interested now to know what is different between the countries in the world of firefighting???
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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What i also found out,we carry way more equipment on our engines,than you do,but your engines are way bigger then ours are!?Why is that!?To me it seems like there is no real storage mangement!? Our Trucks/Engine,got 2 times more stuff on it than you do,it was hard to belive for me,when i first saw one of yours!
Much of the difference in size goes to storage needs for both hoses and water. Most engines here carry 500 to 750 gallons of water, and could be more. We also do carry more hose, from LDH for water supply (most depts) to different sizes of attack lines.
When I toured with a fire company in Manchester, UK I also noticed the amount of equipment carried, but lack of hoses and water supply. Some of the reasons is noticing the living conditions between the U.S. and in Europe. For many depts here in the states we deal with homes with yards, more wood frame and lightweight construction, longer distances from street to home etc. Whereas in many places in Europe, even smaller communities, you seen houses closer together, construction type was more masonry and non combustible structure. So it may not really be an issue of storage management, just a different approach to the different challenges encountered.
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In the First Place we all do the Same Thats correct!but evreybody does it different use other Equipment,has different tactics and stratgy,id like to get some newBackground Infos and combine them with ours!i sucesfull did it once ;)
About the Trucks,that makes sence to me here everythink Is close by!
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Permalink Reply by Mark C. Oswald on
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Amanda, what is meant is that unlike what we do here in the US or Canada is that there is a way of finese used in firefighting and a higher level of water management on the fire scene to effectively extinguish the fire, rather than monstering it out with large volumes of water. Europe and Australia are both really using small bore pumps (750-1000 gallons) on a tri stage setting to effectively boost the pressure and use less water on the scene. This allows steam generation at a greater rate, thus using less water, more steam to put out the fire. UHP is even higher in pressure and vaporizes the water droplets at a flow rate of 10 GPM to really give a fast knockdown to the fire. Ventilation is frowned on a bit more in this theory, but aggressive entry isn't needed into the direct fire room. Even in a pre backdraft situation, steam drenching the building can be used as an effective tool in combating the fire or condition versus venting out.
Our engines typically carried the same equipment as a squad and mini hazmat unit. (This was in Australia)
The differences can be glaring at times though:
Hydrants are very closely spaced, allowing for less of a hose bed to be needed on the trucks, Tassilo thus the reason why we have such larger trucks here with LDH (Large Diameter supply lines) which take alot of the vehicle up.
Selectible gallonage nozzles make us carry a larger supply of water since NFPA requires us to have a certian flow rate out of a single line, making an inital attack on the fire. The idea of high pressure attack on the fire is negated by the fact that we HAVE to have this by law. If we could pull our heads out of our rectum we could see this a bit more as to it's not the gallonage we need to flow, but the steam we need to generate instead to cool the fire more rapidly. The older guys in the fire service will agree that this was a better way of putting fire out, and they were doing it with 750 GPM pumps instead of 2000 GPM pumps like we have today.
Use of additives in the tank that allow the water to penetrate deeper into the fire are not really used here, whereas in Europe and Australia they are more common place, this allows the tankwater to be better used on the initial attack before hooking into the plug and having an established water supply.
The nature of building construction in the states can be similar and very very different from what is seen in Europe. Each individual State or city for that matter has to find the best way to combat fire. Older construction tends to hold onto heat very well, though it is more like a matchstick due to the amount of time the timber has had to dry (as one example of millions). Newer construction tends to hold heat really well as well, though the dynamics of the building are different due to the insulation properties, attic spaces, duckboards or no duckboards, these ones can burn really quick, or really slow depending on the type of construction.
From having rode in Australia and using a mixture of NFPA style tactics and looking at EN standard tactics as well and using them, there is alot we can learn from each other. If you did the flashover simulator, we didn't come up with that idea, it was from Sweden.
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Permalink Reply by Jason on
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Firefighting differs from location to location (even in the U.S.). The stratigies and tactics differ depending on your needs in the district and SOPs'/SOGs'. That's why I like networking, so I might be able to bring new ideas, stratigies, and tactics to the plate. I believe we all can learn from each other (no matter where you are), but keep in mind the needs of your district. What works for "FDNY" (not trying to bag on you guys) might not work for everyone. There is an organization that does some kind of forgien exchange program for firefighters. I'm going to have to look it up again. I can't remember the web site.
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I did it by my own ;)without any Company,but it might help :)
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Jason,
I don't know how the foreign exchange program" works but I recently visited Ireland's - World's Rescue Organization - World Championship and have met a few FF from Puyallup, WA's Extrication Team. I have gathered some brochures for the equipment that they use here in Ireland and I'll gladly send them to you or anybody that is interested. I'm not a Fire Fighter by trade but have become involved with our FD in building their new Fire Stations.
Check out their website and see how else I can help you. I'll be in Ireland this week and next.
www.rescue-org-ireland.com
Take care and be safe
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