Medic's carrying a pistol????

I know down by Detroit there are medic's carrying pistols for protection and even bullet proof jackets, but does anyone else know of city's that are doing the same thing or even fire departments that have some sort of protection like a bullet proof jacket. this seems to be a growing concern out there for everyone, just wanted to see your view on this issue.

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Permalink Reply by Kimberly A Bownas on October 9, 2008 at 7:59am

I think a Medic, EMT or firefighter caring a gun for protection while on the job is ridiculous. I don't know about the bullet proof vests. They don't wear them here that I know of. The gun issue is dangerous to me and if I am correct there may have been a discussion on this before.

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Permalink Reply by 144Truck on October 9, 2008 at 9:05am

BACKGROUND.... My "Make a Living" job is in law enforcement.... When I was with my initial PD, it was in my FD district.... I routinely carried a handgun. My present PD for 20 yrs. is NOT in my district. I DO NOT routinely carry a weapon. I do not advocate my personnel carrying weapons. The exception would be those who are law enforcement for a living folks (We have one active State Trooper and they are required by their policy to be armed 24x7). There are some very valid comments in this thread... the most compelling is that when the citizenry learns that a lot of us are armed the bad guys will start shooting. I think this is accurate. Also most folks are not properly trained with regard to firearms tactics OR the proper use of force in various situations. The first time a FF or Medic shoots someone while on duty, the challenges to that shooting will make a police shooting seem like a pleasure trip. The attorneys for the deceased or wounded civilian will tear up the shooter, the department, and the city, town, county, etc. because of the lack or absence of training. There is also the issue of where you would secure your weapon while operating. I don't think carrying a weapon into a structure fire in your turnouts is particularly bright. Are you willing to make that weapon safe, and properly store it and lock it up? Ever seen a gun locker on fire apparatus? How about your POV? Can you guarantee the security of that weapon?

See where this goes?

Leave the guns to the cops....

The body armor issue is a bit easier because that is not an offensive weapon, rather a passive safety device... Body armor, however, requires maintenance, has a five year certification life, and loses about 90% of its protective ability when wet.... If you use it, will your comp carrier or other insurance indemnify it? Will your agency endorse it? Things to ponder

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Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on October 9, 2008 at 10:30am

Screw carrying a pistol, how about an MP5 for the Narc box. If you're gonna carry a weapon ,it might as well be a cool weapon. (The following statement was sarcasim)

Bullet Proof vest are a reality in some departments, in my city, guns are there and used often. I don't wear a vest when I work the shitbox (shitbox = MICU), but some guys do, some guys will even carry them on the engines. Vest are not issued, but no will stop you from wearing one on a medical call.

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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on October 9, 2008 at 11:45am

Right on Ben. I hoping for a textbook perfect world too. TCSS

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Permalink Reply by SWATrauma on October 9, 2008 at 1:24pm

We can wear ballistic vests on duty if we want......our company will even pay for a portion of them but in order to qualify for that you need to wear them 100% of the time......

I for one appreciate the ability to take a bullet......although part of me would also appreciate the option of SENDING one as well !! Ill settle for a tazer.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 9, 2008 at 1:50pm

Billy,

There's nothing "textbook perfect" or "looks good on paper" about what I posted. The ideas I posted are SOP in places that are proactive about protecting their firefighters and medics. Those places are high-volume urban fire and EMS systems that run violent calls every day. The body armor and staging policies I discussed are 15 to 25 years old, and have been followed effectively and safely by the departments that use them - right in the middle of the real world.

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 9, 2008 at 1:53pm

Brent,

With all due respect, firearms and any other use-of-force weapons are offensive in nature, even if they're only used in self defense. Body armor is entirely defensive in nature. You can injure or kill someone with a firearm, a side-handle baton, an ASP, a Taser, or even pepper spray, but it's pretty difficult to injure or kill someone with soft body armor.

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on October 9, 2008 at 5:01pm

Wait till you get into a situation that becomes life threatening you will go to looking for something to use if you got time . How about a taser instead they are a great alternative .

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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on October 9, 2008 at 6:00pm

You could throw a SOP at the bad guy. It's probably thick and heavy enough to kill. TCSS

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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on October 9, 2008 at 6:14pm

"Why isn't not responding to fires during a riot without police protection not an option?
Is there some rule that firefighters must commit suicide just to extinguish fires that primarily involve property?" - Ben Waller

Great point, Ben. Basic firefighting 101- Scene safety. Just as we stage until Law Enforcement secures the scene of a domestic disturbance, we should stage until they secure an incident in an area of civil unrest. There's no law requiring FF's to risk getting shot, stabbed, etc. to put out a fire! Stay safe people!