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Emissions for 2010
What are your thoughts on the upcoming NFPA emission changes? Urea is going to be added to all apparatus to help burn cleaner. Are any of you converting yet and how expensive is this really going to be for us? Buying a new truck seems to get harder and harder every year.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Patrick Twohig on
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I am suprised that they dont have some kind of exemption for fire vehicles yet since both Detriot and Caterpillar are both getting out of the over the road engine bussiness, leaving only Cummings, and Navistar
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Mercedes is also producing, and rumor has it Cat is playing around with the new regs, something about spark plugs. My understanding is most are filtering the crank case vent to meet the requirements, but the preliminary cost is still 7 to 10 grand per unit. EPA did this with gas motors back in the mid 70’s and didn’t produce a good one till the 90’s.
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Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on
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You've either got to have advanced EGR(International/Cat)or SCR/DPF(everyboby else).Scr is going to use (urea)refined cow piss.In any even it's just another Government mandated bitb of BSW that is going to DECREASE the reliability of Fire apparatus. If you thought the 07 stuff was bad waith until you try this schit! Someone in the EPA oughta get choked! This is the biggest farce imparted on the taxpayers yet. As it looks now only two serious players, Cummins and International with Detroit diesel/Mercedes doing limited engines. They're doing a LOT more than filtering the crankcase vent,wait until you see all the garbage.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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It is an EPA
(Obama)government requirement. There is nothing to convert to as it only pertains to vehicles purchased in 2010. According to some industry people, the new systems will be able to produce the same fuel mileage as the pre 2009 requirements.
Here is an article which talks about the cost "surcharge" for the new engines.
http://fleetowner.com/green/archive/daimler-2010-emissions-surcharg...
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Permalink Reply by Michael C. Harrison on
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EPA emissions changes.....not NFPA (the NFPA has no say in the commercial truck industry, and they can only make recommendations to the fire service)
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Permalink Reply by Paul Acosta on
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I understand it's EPA but regardless, if you buy a mfg 2010 vehicle it must have the emissions changes. The manufacturers must comply to NFPA standards.
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not trying to nit pick, just trying to set the record straight because lots of people confuse standards and requirements.
Yes, if you buy a mfg 2010 vehicle it must have the emissions changes....because that is an E.P.A. requirement (nothing to do with the fire service what so ever, except that we tend to use diesel engines)
And you CAN get apparatus that doesn't comply with N.F.P.A. standards...it's just not advisable due to cost (it would cost tons of money to try to change cab configurations just for one piece, since not many other places would want a non-N.F.P.A. cab) and liability reasons...among many other things
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Permalink Reply by St Wood on
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Our 09 Sterling has a Cummins 300hp and has the regenerator on it to burn the carbon. When its ready to burn the carbon it comes up on the computer then you have to find a concrete pad and clear area on the right side because it gets up to 1100 degrees for about 20 minutes. No joke. This thing will start a brush fire or melt a black top road. The truck runs the same just gonna cost if you let it get all carboned up. We have had it for a year and only had to do this 4 times. It is pretty much a high dollar catolitic converter.
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Permalink Reply by Eng Co 4 on
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Oh boy! I see LOTS of calls to garages, truck stops, and repair yards
when these things start their "burn-offs" and they are not sitting in
a cleared fire-resistant area! Another "green" idea that only works on
paper! And then you have the "human factor"!
Maybe the manufacturers should think about designing exhaust stacks
that vent upward ala tractor-trailer rigs? Use jet-aircraft-grade metal
in the exhaust plumbing.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Yacovone on
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I think it is the biggest bunch of crap ever !!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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We have an entire fleet of new engines with the same feature. The regeneration heat is why we went with a vertical exhaust stack. We routinely regenerate the exhaust with no problems from them yet. (8 engines in service for a year)
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The engine mfg's put a warning alarm on the engine, so that you can manually override the regeneration cycle if, for example, you're using the engine to pump a fire for hours when regeneration is due. Once the engine is back to quarters, you can manually regenerate the exhaust. It really isn't a big deal as long as you run the regeneration outside the station with a clear overhead.
The exhausts are heat-shielded. We specified ours to vent vertically to keep the regeneration heat away from people.
The exhaust burns much cooler and cleaner than the old-school diesels during normal operation.
It's like anything else new - do it for 6 months, and then it will be "the way you always did it."
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