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Firefighter Down! What's Your Department's Policies?
"Battalion 512, Engine 18, we have a firefighter down on the roof of the structure..." What are you going to do? Do you have policies in place that address this efficiently?
Have you trained and do you have the right equipment needed to handle this type of scenario?
Do you have communication plans and checklists in place?
John Scherrei, Fire Chief from my department ( who just retired last week) has a great saying that addresses this.
"Train as if your life depends on it... because it does!"
TCSS, SB Mike
Have you trained and do you have the right equipment needed to handle this type of scenario?
Do you have communication plans and checklists in place?
John Scherrei, Fire Chief from my department ( who just retired last week) has a great saying that addresses this.
"Train as if your life depends on it... because it does!"
TCSS, SB Mike
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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Great point Mike, we for surely don't do enough of this and I don't think we've got any policies either:(
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Mike,
The answer to your question is yes in my department.
Policies are in place, Communications Model in place, EDS-Emergency Distress Signal useage for our portable radios, the programmed frequency, who monitors this frequency, (can you guarantee if dispatch monitors it, will the 5 watt EDS make it back to dispatch from all geographical areas of your response district -all the time? For us, after alot of testing the answer was NO, so we took the monitoring right to the scene, with specially programmed 100w radios to recieve an EDS- with the firefighter's identifier information, policy and training on when to push EDS, all in place, Commands Response to a Mayday Checklist, in place (dry erase board) Expanding the ICS: who will then run the Fire Operation and who will run the Mayday Operation all in place... these are the biggest two identified problems in which command fails... Command not planning/controlling and handling the rapidly escalating incident.
All of which I developed over the last 10 years and now teach through my training company.
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Permalink Reply by anne potter on
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This just happenned in Syracuse two fireman trapped on a roof......With proper training both men was brought down to the ground and both are safe.. going to have to archive this articelll.. got to go looking....
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Here's a simple question to start this things out... How many times to you blow the air horn and for how long if you have a a firefighter down or missing situation?
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Permalink Reply by Cory on
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First to answer Michael Schlags question it is 0, blowing the air horn where I'm from is to signal to get out of the structure because it is about to fail. Now back to FF down. At our residential fires we have 4 engines (3 personal), 1 truck (4 personal), 1 ambulance, and F.U. 10 which has a BC to run the scene and his Ass. BC to act as a safety officer. But our second due engine hits the hydrant and hooks it to the first due engine and then hits the suction from the first due to the suction of the truck. After that is completed then they go to FU 10 and get with the BC to find out where everybody is, we have 2 clip board to help track where the people are we use 1 of them as the main one and the 2nd is back up but we keep that day's roster on those clip board, 1 of the clip boards is clear plastic where the days roster is in-between 2 pieces of plastic and we use a grease pencil to mark stuff, but after a quick briefing, we take the basket of rit stuff and the 2 saws out of the back of FU 10 and take it close to the structure, run the saws to make sure they are running, then we do 2 walk arounds and call stuff out, like stairs, basement etc... We can also help throw some ladders if we feel the need, for more means of egress for the firefighter that are interior especially when they are on the 2nd story. Hopefully the guys on the Truck can work off the basket instead of having to get on the roof but we all know that doesn’t always happen. But I think we have a good thing going but studies say it takes 15 FF to get 1 out so honestly all you can do is hope but if a mayday is called RIT is activated everybody except RIT and the person calling the mayday will change channels our BC will call 2 more alarms which everybody in the City will be there which is 3 more engines and 2 more medics.
1st due attack line
2nd due hydrant, and RIT
3rd back up line
4th Hit the 2nd hydrant but don’t lay unless told to, and then it will be laid to the truck if it is called for.
THE TRUCK, LT.’s side of the truck search, Drivers side, 2nd means of egress, back door, and ladder the 2nd story if there is one, find the gas and electric on the walk around. Horizontal or vertical ventilation is done as needed.
Medic Ambulance’s crew will help with outside operations to, maybe throw some ladders, search for electric and gas, they basically help out the truck on the outside
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Permalink Reply by Jr on
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3 one minute blasts in conjunction with 3 maydays out on the radio that will be heard in the entire county
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Really great idea for a training exercise....we don't do enough in this area...
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Mike,
Why would you blow the air horns? In my area this is a signal to drop what you are doing and bail out of the structure which is about to collapse or suffer an impending flashover, etc.
Training in this manner would first reduce communications with the down firefighter or his company. And after the horns were done or out of air as suggested - LOL the crew with the downed firefighter would be thinking they need to make a decison to stay or bail - all of which are bad for the overall situational awareness. They are on the inside - one view of the room or hallway they are in... thinking something bad is happening from another view / angle / or vantage point.
Companies working in that division may abandon their operation, abandoning fire attack and make the situation worse or escalate it into another non-related situation which the downed firefighter or his company has to deal with. Example: fire attack stops the suppression effort and now the downed firefighter who is suffering a MI is faced with rapid fire progression or deteriorating visability because the suppression and ventilation effort has stopped.
Been here and done that for real - Companies leaving, command losing control of the scene because the accountability portion of an ALL -OUT is going into the crapper for the next few mintues as we all know... not to mention RIT or RIC forcing in with companies forcing out.
Bret Tarver - Phoenix LODD (god rest his soul) was lost in radio land during a transitional stage of offensive to defensive - all out and it was some time before the acknowledgement of a missing firefighter. Why bring that on ourselves?
THREE WORDS work just as well as the air horns without having all of the distraction, lack of communications and abandoning of critical firefighting operations...
MAYDAY - MAYDAY - MAYDAY
THIRD FLOOR DIVISION - SIDE A
ENGINE 2
GREENWOOD
SEARCH RESCUE
I HAVE A FIREFIGHTER DOWN - HE IS NOT CONSCIOUS - WE NEED ASSISTANCE WITH EXTRICATION.
LUNAR - Location, Unit, Name, Assignment, Resources Needed
If the communications model is complete, the LUNAR information will take over the radio frequency as the priority and Command can obtain the critical information needed to deploy the manpower and resources to make the rescue.
IMO - Air horns should be saved for when the world is about to end...
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You are absolutely correct !! we are discussing atleast two completely different scenerios, missing and down. I can assure you I will read and digest better in the future before answering...Great answer...be safe out there
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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In the first place, what the hell was he doing on the roof with a chainsaw? Sorry, couldn't help trying to be funny. I do understand that he's probably a 'truckie' - one of those things we don't have.
Getting into serious mode, we don't put people on the roof of a burning building, but when we do send people up there, there are always at least two of them. If someone did get hurt, it would be interesting. Something to take up with our training officer.
Blasts on the air horn are our evac signal.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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The answer to your question is yes, we do have a policy in place. upon hearing the mayday, the incident OIC will immediately acknowledge the mayday, order all other companies to another channel, activate the RIT, call for a PAR, and strike another alarm response, and establish another RIT. After the PAR, the incident OIC will reassign companies. The RIT stays on their own channel and scans the mayday channel. If and when the FF is found, RIT will assess the FF and his air supply and report their findings and intentions(they are not directly communicating with the OIC of the incident. they are communicating through the RIT OIC who is posted right beside the incident OIC). Other companies will assist in removing the FF. whether or not attack operations will continue during the mayday is entirely situational and at the incident OIC's discretion. If he/she deems an evacuation is necessary, he/she will order the evacuation over the radio, dispatch will repeat it over the main band and the fireground(tactical) channels, and the driver operators will sound their airhorns for one long continuous blast. Now, this is in a perfect scenario, but we all know that is far from reality most times. Is it just me, or does plan "A" never seem to always work out? I'm a plan "B" or even "C" kind of a guy.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Venable on
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You can never rise to your expectations,but you always fall back to your level of training.TRAIN,TRAIN,TRAIN.You can never train enough.
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