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Junior Firefighters
What is yalls take on juniors? Should they be able to go on scene? Should they have pagers? Should they ride the trucks or drive POV? thanks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Tell you what how about I just stop replying, because so far you have shot down every fucking thing I've said. We don't utilize "children".
Wilson, first off, they are called questions to gauge what was meant by relying heavily upon Explorers etc. I also gave you fair warning to go back and read replies because the questions were loaded, meaning to be cautious in answering given past discussion on this topic here and elsewhere. Since you are still pretty new here, I was giving you the chance to research such replies and to be careful in how you answer the questions. Point being there has been much discussion, debate, and so forth where it was advocated in using children on firegrounds with the notion of "how else will they learn" BS.
Rehab, Mop Up, and Hose Racking are things that are perfectly legal for explorers to do.
Rehab, sure. Mop up, depends upon extent and where and scene situation. Hose racking, perhaps, but debatable, such as the height limitations as Jack mentioned.
There is no reason that already exhausted firefighters should need to do these things when they could be rehabing.
Depends on the circumstances. Mop up and hose racking are after the incident operations, rehab is during the incident. Now granted clean up is not a fun task and loading hose etc does incur physical exertion, but unless a crew has just come out of a fire and gone to rehab, there is no reason other personnel on scene can't be cleaning things up. No reason to be sitting around if one has been out of the fire for some time.
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Another point of view, if I had known then what I know now being more educated on fire service tactics and operations, I would have never gone out of the station to some of those calls I made as a junior ff. At my department now, we have juniors who only do training(no live fire)
And also part of the reasoning that there are more rules placed on such programs and so forth. Such experience also shows the mindset from a young and eager kid to a more mature adult. Just because you were able to do more and had not incurred injuries, issues, etc, doesn't mean it was the most prudent decision. Hence the proven fallicy of "how else do we/they learn" that has been used as a crutch to advocate the use of children on scenes......or worse, to supplement staffing.
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I am an explorer and do not see why we should be limited to no activity at a fire station. Isn't that the point of riding out?
LeAnn, first off there is more to the issue than what you may be seeing on this thread. Each dept does have their own rules in regards to riding out or even doing stuff in house. There are plenty of firefighters out there who never started as an Explorer or junior and have had very successful firefighting careers. They did not have to ride out for experience etc, because they trained in house etc before they rode out.
Now the issue of ride outs can be touchy, from some discussions you may read about juniors explorers taking a seat from a certified FF. In other discussion you see an advocation of utilizing children under the guise of "how else do they learn" type of thing. You state you can go to a scene but are allowed to watch from the truck. That is fine and for some depts is OK, for others not. In my dept Explorers can ride on an engine or truck, when a call comes in they stay with the rig and observe. For a fire, they can sit with the battalion chief and listen to the radio traffic etc, but they are not utilized in any way.
Another issue is the number of calls where children have been injured or killed on scenes, enrout to or coming back and so forth. These are issues that stick out in people's minds and is also part of the reasoning for limiting what kids should be able to do in the realm of firefighting and the fireground. Explorer programs are also not limited to the fire service and many police depts have Explorers.......yet you don't really see kids riding around with cops and going to crime scenes either, right?
Besides that, the majority of explorers are not cocky about this career.
Yep, most Explorers and juniors aren't cocky about the career, but there have been many overzealous ones who come on such forums and advocate the utilization of children on fires etc. Yes, being eager is fine, but that doesn't mean that there should be free reign of using kids on calls, there are still laws to be followed.
Believe it or not, some of us from the younger generation want to be leaders, examples, and good people. That is the standard of a firefighter in my eyes and what I look up to. If they look down on us in a learning process, it makes them no better.
Absolutely, and that is great to see younger folks step up, be eager and so forth. However, as mentioned above, there is also knowing one's place too and sometimes that means waiting to become a legal adult in the eyes of the law (18) before being utilized as a FF etc. LEARNING the job can be accomplished without putting kids in harms way of the fireground and there is much that can be learned in a station. Yes, those adults who take the time to teach and encourage kids to learn. There are also those who prefer not to have kids around either and while you may view them as gruff or "looking down" now doesn't mean that would be their demeanor if one was an adult and a certified FF. It is about perspectives.
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Permalink Reply by Zach Pfeifer on
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To bad alot of these "children" have more certs then you do. I know im 17 i have more certs than 90% of people in any fire dept around mine from emt to basic vehicale rescue tech. to interior with out live burn to exterior and excet. Jouniors are the people than are gonna be taking your job or pulling yyour ass outa that fire that you get yourself trapped in. Jouniors are actullay an important part of the fire service. Think of that. thank you very little
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If you have the certs and training and go to 99% of trainings and as many calls as you can make and your dedicated you should be able to go on calls and do everything except get out on roads if they arnt shutdown or only so close to a working structure and not aloud in any buildings unless already cleared. if your department has enough pagers for jouniers then you should get one but now more places are moving to txt messages for calls to so try to get put on the txt list and if you got a smart phone they make great apps that show your where the calls are and everything ex. CADPAGE they should be aloud to ride in trucks to calls unless it is filled with senior members you should get kicked off the truck if senior members show up
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Reply by Zach Pfeifer
To bad alot of these "children" have more certs then you do. I know im 17 i have more certs than 90% of people in any fire dept around mine from emt to basic vehicale rescue tech. to interior with out live burn to exterior and excet. Jouniors are the people than are gonna be taking your job or pulling yyour ass outa that fire that you get yourself trapped in. Jouniors are actullay an important part of the fire service. Think of that. thank you very little
Zach, where is your certification for spelling and grammar? Because that is absolutely horrendous.
Do you realize you just insulted a retired captain of a busy career dept, who probably forgot more during his career than all your certs put together?
This post of yours is the very thing that gives juniors a bad name in regards to these forums. Do you think all your ranting about your certs is impressive? It isn't. It means absolutely squat in the grand scheme of things. Having a piece of paper means nothing if the skillset is not there to back it up. As for taking our jobs and pulling our asses out of the fire.....well, considering your writing skills and attitude, it is a safe bet you won't be making the hiring lists anytime soon.There is also something called humility. There is no cert for that, it is something that is learned from checking the attitude, knowing your place, and keeping the mouth shut and ears open. It is something you may want to learn, because, given your responses here, you are severely lacking in it.
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Permalink Reply by Glen Garland on
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Guessing from the "yalls" that you aren't from Maine lol but we have a good set of rules from our BOLS (think OSHA) regulating what jr ff can/cannot do. It details hours they can respond (school vs non school nights etc), jobs they can and cant do etc. We have gone beyond that with a specific set of rules and regs that seem to work well for us. We do not let jrs respond to any MVA for instance. Our dept responded to a fatal MVA involving a high school sr that many of jr ff knew. This prevented any of them from being exposed to scenes like that. The jrs have a seperate training night each week and they are allowed to attend the regular dept weekly drill as well. They cant leave school for any calls and must maintain a C avg grade. Their parents are involved from day 1 and can suspend their kids participation in the program anytime if needed. On the fireground we use them to set up rehab area, assist with bottle changes, assist with retrieving equipment from the apparatus etc. Overall we have a very structured program and have not had any major issues with any of the kids. We have had several kids go on to either careers in fire/ems or go to school for it. Not all have stayed in our communityafter high school but it is one more positive program that kids in our community can partake in and serve their community.
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Permalink Reply by Kaitlin Reick on
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Dave, I am currently a Junior been so since April of 2011 and here's what I've done since then(I will be a full in a month). I am able to go on scene either POV or by ambulance. I have had a pager since I am a member of the department. I can't do much out on scene other than run tools or various other tasks that keep me out of the way like changing air tanks if anyone packs up and uses more than one bottle of air. Some of the juniors we've had in the past don't help as much as i do but they are just in it because it is a family thing they unlike me aren't interested in being a firefighter for a career dept just on our volunteer dept. others have done as much for calls as me because they want to be firefighters after high school. Most of our members could take the juniors and shove them because they are in the way others like them because its a learning experience for the future generation of firefighters in our community and other places if they move away. So my take as a junior soon to be a full firefighter is to let them do as the bylaws state, and if they do wrong then so be it they don't need to be on the department. Like in ours if the call comes while they are in school they may not leave school to respond until school is dismissed unless the chief pulls them from school(which it rarely happens that chief pulls them out of school) I have gotten itchy to leave school, but never did or will, and we did have one who had left school for a fire and got kicked off the department.
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Permalink Reply by Knightlite on
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In our state the laws have changed regarding juniors, and they can't do as much as the used to be able to do.
In my experience, Juniors are the sometimes unappreciated backbone of the fire service. For years they watch and learn, perform mundane tasks, get yelled at, yet persevere with many of the Juniors in our department groaning up and becoming full-fledge firefighters. Many have gone on to be officers and chiefs. I think they are a benefit and I appreciate their help.
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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I don't have any issue with them training, doing station duties, cleaning rigs, helping reload hose, and MAYBE some duties at a fire scene as long as they saty out of the hot zone. NO SCBA usage, NO overhaul, NO roof venting, NOTHING that places them in any chance of danger while they are less than 18 years old. Further they should NOT be riding out in rigs running emergency. A seperate vehicle with an explorer advisor should bring them to the scene if available.
I have too much to worry about to add worrying about where some underage kids are at the scene.
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Permalink Reply by Nick Gregorio on
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I am a junior/explorer with tampa fire rescue in central florida.
I am allowed to do a lot of based on what I've read so far
I can ride on the engine or rescue and sometimes the truck depending on if the captain or driver trusts you enough.
I can go on any type of call and see anything that a real ff/medic can see. And I mean anything. I can help with patient treatment in many aspects. We can do almost all bls procedures and no als ones, thank god.
We can't go in a burning building but we can do any form of operations from the outside other than ventilation or shutting off utilities.
We may not be certified emts or ffs but we know the basics of both and then some.
Most of us in my post could pass the emt-b at this very second. We could most likely pass ff1 as well.
We can do pretty much anything depending on what we know how to do and if the officer in charge will let us do what we know. Usually the officer will let us do anything because they know how much training we get. We train for 2+ hours every week, not including ride alongs or any other form of optional training we can receive.
Whenever I am on a ride I am treated as a probie/rookie.
I do the dishes, wash and wax the rigs, restock everything and then some. For instance today I washed the engine and washed and waxed the truck.
We have no limit on how many hours we must ride per month or year. I have logged in over 175 hours in the past 7 months, at about 12-14 hours per ride along.
We do public education, community relations, parades and can work the local usf bull and tampa bucs games as well.
We have a lot of freedom to learn and do as much as we please.
Many of the chiefs and captains here love the explorer program because we can pick up the easier jobs and have the probies and more experienced guys do something of higher priority.
We learn how things run now so that when we are true probies we can pick up the pace and understand a little better than a normal probie with no experience in the fire service.
I have heard that most explorers that actually go into the fire service end up becoming at least a captain in the first 15 or so years which is a very good time frame because our dept is so large.
But anyway that is my opinion of the junior/explorer program, it is without a doubt a benefit for any service and can help with many things such as public ed and preparing future firefighters and paramedics for the real job.
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