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Poor fire companies and poorer attitudes
Watching a video of a fire company that will go nameless. They are a rural fire company and the video shows many members without PPE and a early 70's era fire engine.
What bites my ass is the response of many, I guess firefighters, "whoever is first gets the gear", why bother if you can't do it right" "I can't stand to watch this"
Many of us have shiney new custom apparatus with AC, GPS, hell, automatic transmission, seat belts and heat. We all have PPE under 5 years old. The firehouse has AC, Internet, a big ass plasma TV with every freaking channel available. Bills are paid, catered banquerts all the advantages of an easy firefighting life.
But there are companies that don't have nay of this. They get by on budgets int he hundreds, not hundred of thousands. Thier only goal is having enough money to put fuel in the engine. God forbid if it breaks down because they may not have the money to get it fixed.....again. Yeah they may rock a 75 Ranger or 82 Hahn if their lucky. The field piece is Earls old pick up that someone rigged a pump on the back.
Its so easy to say these guys are bad. Anyone under 30 has had it pretty easy in the fire service. They never rode on the back of an engine in the winter, used hip booots, always had SCBA's, enough radios for every officer, 1000 gall 2000 gpm pumps. But they think how much their doing. A great man told me "you ain't done shit until you put out a truck fire wit 500 gallons of water" I had the pleasure of knowing the members who built my fire house.....built, not had it built but put up thier houses, use extra money to actually put mortar to brick. I once read an old ledger of the ladies aux. They wrote with such pride of earning $35 at a bake sale. And yes they actually baked not bought like people do today.
I have a million times more respect for a bunch of guys who get on the engine without the right gear and doing what they can with what they have because no one else will. Yes, they got an old engine, garden gloves and rubber boots. PPE made by Ben Franklin, but damn give them the respect for doing what others won't. I'm the nieghbors who's house is on fire is gratefull for what these poor fire companies do.
I see fire departments getting all these grants and already have all this money, but the companies that really need don't get because they don't qualify, or believe it or not are afraid to apply for fear of being shut down for being sub standard. I wish there was a program to help these companies that really need the help. Instead of donating that engine or gear overseas give it to a department in America who can use it.
So next time your on youtube and you see a poor department say something a little positive. They know they may not being doing it right or have what they need. But at least thier trying.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Brother Weber is a facebook friends of mine. This guy has to be one of the most civic minded people I ever known. I get status updates about yard sales, classes for the community, things atthe local schools, fire warnings, all the things a chief should be and more. One day I'm going to drive the back roads of PA just ot met him and shake his hand.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Just seems you mentioned a video and use of garden gloves, hard hats etc, and the video that contains that was the one you posted earlier about.
I'm talking about those departments that don't have the tax base that many of us have. Can't afford to go to the state fire school let alone FDIC.
FDIC is just a large scale convention and many depts, even more affluent depts, can't afford to send members to it. However, many people do pay to go on their own, so the aspect of sending people to FDIC is moot. However, there is also the National Fire Academy, of which applicants can receive education for free and are reimbursed travel costs to go to the campus. There are also satellite classes and online classes available too.....so basically it contrasts the FDIC aspect.
The other aspect in regards to poor depts is the question in which has been already posed and about drawing a line or standing up to say they can't operate safely with what they currently have. There really is no reason that FF safety should be compromised because a dept doesn't want to ask for more financial help, doesn't want to ask for a tax base because of loss of control etc, or even a community paying low dollars for a service they "think" is right up there.
There was debate on another thread where the issue of citizens know what their service is. I disagree that most citizens really do know. In fact if more depts would be going forward and putting it out there that they can not provide certain services because of financial limitations, it would be an eye opener for citizens and you may see some financial income. Yet, we tend to see the "woe is me" attitude when it comes down to such a suggestion and the embracing of being content to be poor and asking for a "break" as opposed to increase standards.
The adage about police protection comes into play for such discussions to. We don't see volunteer police forces, even in these poor areas, so why should fire depts ask citizen FFs to risk their lives for a community that doesn't care? Don posed that question before and it is valid. We see private businesses saying they can longer provide services with out raising prices, why aren't these poor depts going forth and saying this too?
Now, I'm not advocating or implying every dept needs to have new equipment, rigs, and so forth, but basic PPE and basic training should be there. Your brake system analogy can also hold to the risks involved and even as to reasons that a line should be drawn. Temporary fixes help right now, but if that master cylinder isn't replaced, the next call can become catastrophic for those responding or those needing help. Is it really worth THAT cost???
Now going back to the youtube video comments or the aspect of "giving a break" because they are doing what they can. Again, I disagree. Much can be learned and while equipment may have limitations, strategy and tactics should account for those limitations. For instance I wouldn't expect a dept with garden gloves and hard hats going inside a burning structure, if they did, your damn right I'm criticizing. The aspect of just give them a break because they are poor doesn't fly.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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The conventional wisdom in this (and other similar) discussions is that a community simply doesn't have the money to support their fire department. And to further the discussion there are always comments about 'heart', 'commitment' and 'community service'. All well and good but, common sense seems to be left out of the discussion.
Why aren't fire chiefs standing up at town meetings and demanding that the community *find* the resources to support their own fire department? Apparently the fear of everlasting damnation works to the advantage of local churches, but the idea of dying in a fire just isn't scarifying enough.
Is there no one in the community that has heard of grants? Or is it really just a fear of 'bringing in outsiders', and losing their 'independence' that prevents a chief from applying for them?
How about an all volunteer:
Police department
Highway department
Hospital
School
Military
These type of discussions confuse two separate issues: volunteerism/community service and; local community commitment. On the one hand, you have people motivated to serve their community by becoming a member of their volunteer fire department, willingly accepting the risks inherent as a means of community service for the greater good. On the other, you have a community who may, at best, pony up a few bucks here and there playing cow plop bingo, scarfing down a cheap spaghetti dinner and buying a raffle ticket or two in the hopes of winning a brandy new shotgun, all the while steadfastly bemoaning how much they already pay in taxes and can't afford any more.
There may indeed be a few rural areas where the population is small, aged, poor or otherwise incapable of sparing a few bucks and in which case, the general arguments presented so far in this discussion may be valid; to a point.
As Don pointed out, it isn't the fault of the vollies but that of the community. And with the exception of those communities so poor as to not have any money, for the most part VFD's subsist on what they get because it allows them to maintain their independence.
I doubt that a FD would be afraid of being shut down due to their lack of appropriate equipment or training, after all, their community still needs a fire department. Rather I believe that for the most part, VFDs that struggle to get by on various fund raisers prefer that to the scrutiny and oversight that may come with public money.
So while there may be outliers that are too poor or too rich, for the majority of VFDs under the curve, funding can be found, through taxation, creation of fire districts and actually applying for grants. And while there may be plenty of volunteer *heart* to go around, it needs to be protected by PPE, equipment and training.
So for the Chief who never goes to town meetings to beg, ask or demand for (more) money and who has never applied for any grant money, then come the day when a FF is injured or worse, he along with the town government will, and should be, held accountable.
It's funny, there are laws on the books in every state against cruelty and abuse of animals. If only the people felt as strongly about their volunteer firefighters as they did their dogs, pigs and horses.
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Permalink Reply by carol bartholomew on
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I agree. While some of us may have bigger budgets, and possibly newer equipment, that doesn't necessarly better fire fighters. no matter what type of equipment, training we have, we all have one goal to serve our community the best way that we can.
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