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How do you define a Squad?
After looking at several articles I'm finding that, it seems, each state has there own term for a Squad. With several variations from east coast to west coast. North to south states. What do you consider a Squad? And what compliment of tools does it carry? I'm used to the FDNY's version of a Squad Company. An engine that carries additional equipment for Haz-Mat, High/Low angle rope rescue, extrication equipment and air bags. Now I'm courious since my dept is going to purchase a new engine. This might be the way to go.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bob Callahan on
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In my current 4 parish area, there is only one department that labels any of it's unit's squads, and in their case it's simply an engine with a set of rescue tools and cribbing.
Where I was previously (northwestern Vermont), I know of only one department that used the term squad, and that was for a 4-WD hose and structural support truck.
In my experiences, a squad is often a piece of apparatus that simply doesn't fall neatly into a well defined catagory, and yes, varies widely from department to department and region to region. In some regions, there are generally defined and accepted operational guidelines and functions while in others, there are not.
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Henderson on
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What do FDNY and BCFD use to define their squads? I have seen pics of FDNY Squads and they looked alot like a rescue engine chassis. What do they carry for tools, do they have tanks and any hoses?
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As for FDNY, the squads are thier standard engines with some extra compartmentation added, which I believe is used to carry some extra truck company and technical rescue equipment.Thier pump and water tank capicity, and both the attack and supply hose compliment is the same as an engine company. They also have a second piece in thier quarters, which is similiar to a large delivery or bread truck, which is setup to carry primarily hazardous materials gear.
They function as an engine company in their first due districts or when responding as first-due to a neighboring district if the normal first-due is unavalable or delayed, When they respond other than first due on the initial ticket (dispatch), they can either operate as an as an engine or an additional truck, most commonly assisting with search operations. When filling the box on an all-hands to another part of the bourough, or a neighboring bourough, they supplement manpower as needed, most often performing as a truck company or as a firefighter rescue company either with or in place of a Rescue Company.
They are trained to operate, I beleive at the Tech level, in haz-mat operations, as well as various forms of technical rescue in support of or in some situations, in place of, the burough's Rescue Company. They are actually attached to and commanded by the SOC (Special Operations Command).
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Given that there is actually no firm and solid defination for a "Squad" in the fire service, I do agree that a squad is generally considered, by most fire service professionals, to be a company or vehicle that is primarily oriented towards extrication or technical rescue - confined space, trench, water, ice, dive, cave, mine, wilderness, high angle, etc - it is one of those fire service terms that is primarily defined at the local department level, not in a textbook. That being said, a asuad can be anything that a local department decides does not fit the traditional definations of an engine, truck, tanker or rescue company.
Look at what you need on your apparatus based on your occupancies, training and operations. The equipment carried on a FDNY squad may have very little value in your area as it likely does not resemble NYC and your members may not be trained to FDNY standards.
As far a Wikipedia, I hope as firefighters, we never use that as a source for any technical information, especially if we are posting on are fire service website
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I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Wikipedia is a civilain source of information regarding the fire service and should never be a source of information regarding fire departmnent operations for firefighters. That's why we have things like fire service texts and training materials that define things from a fire service perspective. Yes, there are times that Wikipedia and other civilian information sources can be accurate, and at times it may be able to provide us with some valuable information, there are far too many fire service reference materials that we should be referring to for the answer to these types of questions.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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From here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_truck
A Squad Truck is a rescue vehicle designed to transport the necessary tools, equipment, and personnel to perform a vehicle extrication at the scene of an entrapment.
From Bob
"...a squad is generally considered, by most fire service professionals, to be a company or vehicle that is primarily oriented towards extrication..."
"... a asuad[sic] can be anything that a local department decides does not fit the traditional definations of an engine, truck, tanker or rescue company."
So Bob, when you say, "Given that there is actually no firm and solid defination for a "Squad" in the fire service..." why wouldn't wikipedia's definition be as good as yours? Especially given that your definition is essentially the same as wiki's.
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Yes, In this case, the definitions match.
That being said, I would much would have preferred to see him use a fire service text as his research tool, and it really doesn't matter if if IFSTA or Delmar ore any other generally recognized text to research a fire service question. Call me old fashioned but if there is a question regarding what is a squad, to me, the logiocal place for a fire service professional to get the information is fire service training materials, not Wikipedia.
My point all along has been that a "squad" is defined in many cases by the local fire department. Some departments see it as simply a vehicle to transport manpower and maybe SCBA and a few tools. Others see it as a vehicle slightly heavier and better equipped than a brush truck, but not as large as an engine ( mini-pumper or midi-pumper) with it's primary purpose being suppression, and possibly EMS first response, not rescue. Some see it as a hose truck. So while there is some agreement in some areas that it is a vehicle geared towards rescue, in many areas and many departments that's not the case.
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Micheal ..
I just think it looks far better on a public forum if firefighters us sources of information regarded as professional text and reference materials, rather than Wikipedia.
In some cases, Wikipedia may be quite accurate with the answer. In others, the answer may very well be quite accurate from a civilian perspective, but not as accurate from a professional perspective, if you get what I am trying to say.
It just looks better, IMO, if we quote professional sources of information.
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bob,
if yur gona make this diskuson bout perfesinalism ten tha frist plase yu shud stert is complanein bout peeples spillin nutin seys inperfesianl aspeshally in a publick foram then what peples what cant speel peples shud b usan a speel chek ya no cus i tink mor peple rekanize bad speelin then frum whut sorce ya get infamshun
it jest luks bedder imo if we speel korekly
om jus say in
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Jack ....
That's a whole 'nother issue for a whole 'nother time.
Maybe you think that I am a dink for wanting firefighters to quote fire service texts and reference materials, rather than civilian sources of information when we are having a discussion. And if that's the case, so be it.
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Bob,
Respectfully, I don't think you're a dink (and you shouldn't try and put words in my mouth). I just happen to feel that worrying about what the public may think because someone referenced wikipedia instead of a fire service reference pales in significance (and impact) on what they may think based on how a person in here writes.
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You very well may be right, and I very well may have overreacted.
I do agree that some of the grammar, spelling and punctuation that we all have witnessed in these forums does send a message to the public about our professionalism as well.
Carry on.
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