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Junior Firefighters
What is yalls take on juniors? Should they be able to go on scene? Should they have pagers? Should they ride the trucks or drive POV? thanks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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I for one am glad that none of the 3 FDs I am a member of think that sending underaged KIDS interior, at ANY time, is a good idea.
I will tell you flat out I would absolutely NOT go interior with a kid on my crew.
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Permalink Reply by Dave D. on
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No way should a junior member enter a structure fire or be within the hot zone. but standing near command or at the trucks to watch and learn how things operate on a scene is excellent learning. i have been on scene at a few calls and its amazing how everything falls into place without anyone askign what do i do next? I learned a lot from a simple MVA with 3 PI and 1 pinned. no serious injury. i can only imagine what goes on at a working structure fire
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Permalink Reply by Carl Burney on
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Keep in mind that as a junior you really don't know as much as you probably like to think you do. A junior program is there for you to not only learn how everything works but to also learn discipline. By demonstrating a desire to learn and to be competent and then demonstrating to the Officers and others that you can be trusted to follow rules and orders the day will come when you will be fully incorporated into all aspects of the job. Also remember that you are also teaching THEM...the officers and more senior guys...They will learn by your actions whether or not you can be trusted.
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Permalink Reply by Anita King on
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Our town does not allow us to have junior firefighters. If we did I would say that as one post puts it, they should only be allowed to be gophers on scene. I would also say no to pagers and no to riding the truck. In the state of Virginia, no one under 18 is even allowed to test out in Firefighter I. They can complete the class and take the written test, but they cannot go to the smoke house or take the skills test until they turn 18. It is not that I would doubt their commitment or willingness, it would be more of a maturity issue with me. Now ,before anybody gets mad, this is just my opinion and what I personally think.
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Permalink Reply by Kyle J Carello on
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I am current a Junior and we ride to fires and other scenes .. but we dont get pagers we use the text messaging only the senior members get pagers.
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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino on
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We have juniors, they train only. No pagers, no trucks, no going on scene period.
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Chief Dino,
EXCELLENT. I am firmly of the mind the juniors have no business on the fireground.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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We rely heavily on them, and they do a fantastic job. I believe it is a great way to get people interested in the fire service.
So are you saying your dept utilizes children on a fire scene? If so in what capacity? How are they relied so heavily upon? Why should they be issued pagers or radios?
Before you answer, I would strongly suggest that you go back and read up on the replies here and elsewhere, because these are loaded questions I'm asking here.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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"Reply by Wilson Smith
Tell you what how about I just stop replying, because so far you have shot down every fucking thing I've said."
Wilson,
If you read anything by John you'll find out he has significant experience with the explorer program.
Using profanity is not only immature on your part but shows a certain level of...let's just say ignorance.
Mop up? Only unless the IC declares the situation safe, otherwise you're (well, your department is) putting children in harms way.
The explorer program limits the height an explorer can climb at 6 feet. At least on my engine the hose bed is a bit higher than that.
Hard to believe that your explorers are 'mature' given your childish outburst of profanity.
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Permalink Reply by Lee Ashby, Jr. on
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In 1989 I became a Junior FF when my dad joined the local VFD in the neighborhood that we moved into, the station was 2 blocks away. I was issued an old pager, older set of bunker gear with an ancient Plectron Helment that had "JR-FF" painted on it. My tasks were to gopher tools, and some equipment. As well as operate the mobile cascade system on our utility truck. The juniors were used in grass and wildland fire fighting. It was alot of fun and a lot of learning even though I was a third generation volunteer ff. Trust me when I say that my command staff and my dad kept me from alot of dangerous stuff, it was not fun to sit on the truck and do nothing and listen to the radio traffic. The biggest thing I did learn was how a tanker shuttle operation works, and use it today nearly 23 years later as a Lieutenant with my current department.
Another point of view, if I had known then what I know now being more educated on fire service tactics and operations, I would have never gone out of the station to some of those calls I made as a junior ff. At my department now, we have juniors who only do training(no live fire) and help with changing out hoses and cleaning tools when the trucks come back in if they happen to be at the station. The fire service is an everyday learning process, when you think you have learned everything and don't want to learn more, please hang up your gear, turn in the pager, and stay home.
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Tell you what how about I just stop replying, because so far you have shot down every fucking thing I've said. We don't utilize "children".
Wilson, first off, they are called questions to gauge what was meant by relying heavily upon Explorers etc. I also gave you fair warning to go back and read replies because the questions were loaded, meaning to be cautious in answering given past discussion on this topic here and elsewhere. Since you are still pretty new here, I was giving you the chance to research such replies and to be careful in how you answer the questions. Point being there has been much discussion, debate, and so forth where it was advocated in using children on firegrounds with the notion of "how else will they learn" BS.
Rehab, Mop Up, and Hose Racking are things that are perfectly legal for explorers to do.
Rehab, sure. Mop up, depends upon extent and where and scene situation. Hose racking, perhaps, but debatable, such as the height limitations as Jack mentioned.
There is no reason that already exhausted firefighters should need to do these things when they could be rehabing.
Depends on the circumstances. Mop up and hose racking are after the incident operations, rehab is during the incident. Now granted clean up is not a fun task and loading hose etc does incur physical exertion, but unless a crew has just come out of a fire and gone to rehab, there is no reason other personnel on scene can't be cleaning things up. No reason to be sitting around if one has been out of the fire for some time.
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Another point of view, if I had known then what I know now being more educated on fire service tactics and operations, I would have never gone out of the station to some of those calls I made as a junior ff. At my department now, we have juniors who only do training(no live fire)
And also part of the reasoning that there are more rules placed on such programs and so forth. Such experience also shows the mindset from a young and eager kid to a more mature adult. Just because you were able to do more and had not incurred injuries, issues, etc, doesn't mean it was the most prudent decision. Hence the proven fallicy of "how else do we/they learn" that has been used as a crutch to advocate the use of children on scenes......or worse, to supplement staffing.
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