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Reconditioned SCBA! Which company should we choose?
I have a long time friend who is still serving as Chief of a small VFD. Their budget is small and they are looking for good quality SCBA at a good price. I have been doing some research for this friend on the different companies that sell reconditioned SCBA. i.e. Bunker Fire & Safety & Dalmatian Fire Equipment. Both seem like large companies! Has any one ever dealt with them? Is their equipment qood quality equipment, are they authorized by the manufacture to service the SCBA? Does anyone know if their technicians are factory trained? etc.... Any assistance would be appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Morley Holman on
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Bob, my name is Morley Holman I am the owner of Bunker Fire & Safety Inc. I noticed your blog while doing a google search on "reconditioned SCBA". I would like to provide answers to the questions that pertain to our company. I hope you don't mind!
Buying reconditioned SCBA is definately a less expensive path to take when upgrading or outfitting a Volunteer Fire Department with SCBA. However, it is very important to check the credentials even qualifications of any company selling reconditioned SCBA. Some of these companies perform all of the overhauling in-house and don't have one trained or factory authorized technician in their building. We perform the cosmetic cleaning and sanitizing of the SCBA in-house however, we actually send all of our SCBA to authorized service centers to have our SCBA overhauled and flow tested. I believe we are the only company that does this! We send our cylinders to DOT and TC approved hydrotest facilities to have the valve overhauled, cylinder hydrotested and visual plus inspections performed.
We understand the importance of having a reliable, properly overhauled SCBA! We understand that lives depend on the quality of equipment we sell. This is why we use 3rd party authorized service centers to perform our work. Unfortunately, SCOTT, MSA and SURVIVAIR won't allow our company or any company like ours. i.e. Dalmatian Fire Equipment, to become factory authorized service centers. They feel we are taking new business away from them. This is why Bunker Fire & Safety has chosen the safe and reliable route of having authorized service centers perform the work on our SCBA and cylinders.
Bob, if interested I would be more then willing to send you a list of Fire Departments that have bought from us over the years.
Take care, have a great and safe day and let me know if there is anything me or my company can do for you and your friends FD.
Morley
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Permalink Reply by Bob Anderson on
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Mr. Holman, Thank you for contacting me.
Please feel free to contact me at Bobthefireman.anderson95@gmail.com with company references. I have been to your website and it looks very professional and informative. Thank you for posting the Manufacturers "SCBA PRODUCT SAFETY NOTICES" page. Anyone wanting a link to most if not all of the SCBA safety notices should check this link out. http://www.bunkerfiresafety.com/scba-product-safety-notices/
I look forward to hearing from you.
Bob
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Permalink Reply by Joel Fraser on
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Bob,
In a previous life I worked for a Fire Equipment Supplier as an SCBA repair technician. I would frequently visit departments that had purchased "Reconditioned" SCBA from Dalmation. I've read their claims online, but have to tell you that the equipment I saw was not up to standard, and in many cases unsafe at the time in inspected and tested it. I obviously can't state with certainty that it was shipped in an unsafe condition, only that it did not pass the required function and flow tests. I would ask for copies of their certificates, as well as the most recent flow test on the Posi-Chek3 utilizing the SCBA manufacturers software. If they fail to provide these I would be wary.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Working as a logistics Captain for my department, and being involved with SCBA and airfoil station purchasing, I learned a lot in the process. While it's pretty cool that the owner of a company that you were inquiring about found this thread and commented, I caution you to take into consideration the following, and if the criteria is satisfied, then go with BF&S.
The key factor, especially being a smaller fire department is what the closest largest fire department uses. By going this route, you can piggyback your order, have better pricing options, can use the department to help with service and maintenance, which is huge. Part of our contract was to get personnel trained in maintaining and servicing our own SCBA's. This makes sense fiscally and is a lot more convenient should you need to replace a O ring, wager or hose. If the department does not have this agreement, then have folks from your department get Tyne training and work something out... Quid pro quo...
On a practical note, don't you want the same SCBA units that your mutual aid has? Don't reinvent the wheel and get to know neighboring departments and what they use. You can also get recommendations for vendors, in regard to service, pricing, availability, etc. It pays to do yor homework here. Our tight budgets dictate it.
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Mike,
Tagging a contract is a good idea, but I wouldn't limit it to neighboring departments. We explore all options, including GSA (which isn't always cheapest) and out of state contracts that meet the criteria.
With respect to service agreements utilizing other departments...most of the manufacturers will not agree to this. the certification process only allows you to work on your equipment and requires you to posess the needed test equipment.
Getting set up for your own maintenance is not recommended for smaller departments for a couple reasons. First is the cost- over $15000.00 for the tester, computer, software, tools and a basic inventory regardless of manufacturer. You also have to consider training and proficiency. Your technicians will have to recertify through factory training periodically, and if they aren't working the packs regularly they may not retain the skill when needed. I think you will find if you have less than about 60-80 SCBA you are dollars ahead and you also assign 3rd party liability if there is any problem with the packs.
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This is all very informative! I am receiving alot of emails regarding both companies! I didn't realize how many companies actually sell reconditioned SCBA. What is even more surprising is how many are not authorized by the manufacturer to be overhauling the SCBA they sell. I contacted several of the manufacturers and it seems there is only one company selling reconditioned SCBA that uses authorized service centers to perform the work. I also discovered that some of the companies selling reconditioned SCBA do not have trained technicians employed with their company, they actually paid a local firefighter who has been trained on the SCBA to come into their shop and train their employees. Manufacturers are not very pleased about this! Friends we need to do our home work! Buying reconditioned SCBA is obviously a great path for small departments but we need to make sure the SCBA is par to the specific standards. i.e. 1997, 2002, 2007 NFPA. We also need to make sure the SCBA has proper posichek 3 documents with each SCBA received. I had a company email me yesterday about reconditioned SCBA who told me they still utilize the Posichek 2! Those haven't been in service for 20 years I think!
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Mike,
You make a great point! Neighboring Fire Department's need to be compatible with one another. Having Fire Departments using the same SCBA make and PSI is the ideal scenario. However, not all VFD can afford to purchase, replace or upgrade their SCBA when the neighboring department does. We have sold a lot of SCBA over the years. One of the questions we ask when someone calls us to purchase SCBA is what PSI (2216 or 4500 psi) is your neighboring FD's using? You would be surprised how many Fire Dept's don't know the answer to that question. We encourage anyone we sell SCBA to, to know the PSI your neighboring FD is using. Compatibility is very important as I am sure all of you know! Interchangeability of SCBA cylinders while fighting a fire can help save property and lives. This can only be accomplished if the same psi is being used by both FD's.
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Joel
Just a quick note on your comment!
I absolutely agree with you. The cost for a small VFD to purchase all of the necessary testing equipment, tools and stocked parts can be very expensive. Lets not forget the cost to train a technician and keep that technician current is expensive too! The SCBA manufacturers have service centers in every state and province across the continent! Having these authorized service centers perform the work needed also takes away any liability issues. Which in my mind far out weighs the money you think you may save doing the work yourself. Stay safe everyone!
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So Morley, assuming you have a good idea what departments are using in this specific area, what brand(s) of SCBA's are being used and are they supported through in house techs or do they have to be sent out?
Also, Bob, have you considered getting ALL the local volunteer fire departments together and collectively writing a proposal for Homeland Security grants to facilitate standardizing all the local area's SCBA's?
Just a thought. The consortium approach can be very successful for everyone, including Morley's company.
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Mike
I can tell you that the SCOTT SCBA is the dominate SCBA being used in North America (especially in the US). MSA 2nd, Survivair 3rd and it is a toss up between Drager, ISI and Interspiro for 4th.
As for the global market Drager takes the 1st place ribbon! MSA, SCOTT, Survivair and throw in the rest combined don't hold a candle to the number of Drager SCBA being used in the global market.
With respect to your question about "are they suppported through in-house techs or do they get sent out". Majority of SCBA are sent out! I can tell you this though! From all of the trade in SCBA and SCBA we have purchased over the years. The SCBA are not being sent out enough for proper servicing and overhauls. Majority of FD's we have done business with send their SCBA out only if they are not working properly, rarely are they sent out for manufacturers recommended scheduled overhauls. VFD's can't afford to not have the SCBA out of service if nothing is wrong with it! Also the cost to overhaul SCBA is expensive.
I also agree with your comment about a consortium.
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Permalink Reply by ian wilcox on
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what is the recommended maintenance schedule for a scott 2.2 SCBA
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Even though SCOTT specifies a 2 year schedule for flowing on the Posi-Chek3 the NFPA Standard specifies an annual flow test. SCOTT doesn't specify a scheduled rebuild of their product, but in reality, they require no more or less maintenance than any other SCBA I've worked on. If budget is a concern you may want to use aluminum cylinders rather than a wrapped cylinder (fiberglass or other composite). Aluminum cylinders do not have to be removed from service after 15 years like wrapped cylinders, and can be used indefinitely as long as they pass the hydrostatic testing every 5 years.
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