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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on June 11, 2011 at 2:54pm

My question to you is, are medal days a unknowing opponent to the various fireground safety messages promoted by various organizations?

By this do you mean that unnecessary risks may be taken for the sake of getting some fruit salad on your chest?


Having served in the military, I seen many people receive medals for seeminly BS things or just the nature of the job. When such medals are arbitrarily awarded it does take away from the meaning of the medal. IMO.

When it comes down to an award though, I see no problem if the conditions warrant recognition. This does not mean safety should be trumped for the sake of getting a medal, but if awarded properly, there is no issue. For instance just because there may be an annual awards ceremony, it doesn't mean awards must be issued if there are no cases that stand out. Also awards should be limited to the person's involved....I know of awards where anyone on the crew got the same award for one or two individual's action.

In the end an award is not really about heroism but, simply recognition for "preparation meeting opportunity". We do train for many situations and hopefully most of that training will never have to be used for real. However, when it does get used and circumstances warrant, there is nothing wrong with a bit more recognition for the efforts. Keep the medal as meaning and don't hand it out arbitrarly. Fruit salad isn't worth a life or major injury, no reason to take unnecessary risks.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 12, 2011 at 5:38pm

The only two awards that my department gives out are for meritorious life saving actions or firefighter of the year. The later unfortunately became more a popularity contest than actual actions of someone doing something spectacular for the department. This did nothing but cheapen the award to the point that firefighters who actually did something to earn the honor were ashamed to wear the pin.

Coming from a department that did not give out medals or as was previously mentioned, "Fruit Salad"... makes me feel somewhat cynical of what the awards mean if it's not life saving actions or doing something cool for the community or department. I am curious to find out what some of the awards are to enable a better understanding of the various medals given out by other departments.

CBz

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on June 12, 2011 at 6:04pm

Mike,

I've worked for both kinds of department. As you said, the "...of the year" can end up being a popularity contest.

Even the meritorious action medals are not always meaningful. It depends on how the citations are written up, what happened, what kind of review process the department has, and in some cases, unfortunately, how popular the firefighter happens to be.

The bottom line is that if someone is in this business for medals, they're in it for the wrong reasons. I am fine with giving medals to the deserving, but sometimes medals are given to those who cross the line from bravery into foolhardiness or even stupidity, and then get lucky.

Medals for bravery and coolheadedness in extreme situations - great.
Medals for good luck - not so much.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 12, 2011 at 8:37pm

After reading the recent FDNY 2011 Members in Medal Ceremony post, I learned a lot more about the NYFD specific medals. For those honored with these medals, and reading what they endured or accomplished, I can fully understand how cool these specific awards are and how honored the recipients feel based on the types of medals. I know there are other medals or awards, all very much deserved and different from the awards I've seen given to someone just because they were popular or had the right person write up the justification. None of this obviously exists with the awards handed out to the FDNY Awards Ceremony. All you can feel after reading the FDNY Awards post is... humbled, very humbled.

• James Gordon Bennett Medal winner, the highest honor for a member of the NYFD
• Christopher Prescott Medal, top medal for the Emergency Medical Service
• Christine Godek Medal , this years recipient was a Fire Marshal investigating a fire, so this could be associated with fire investigation?
• 2011 World Trade Center Memorial Medal, possibly for terrorism / bomb threat related responses?

What an incredible motivator and recognition for others to see. I understand that in some cases, aggressive risk taking (against the rules) behavior was what enabled the rescue to take place in the first place. Another example of it being easier to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. It's also what we are charged with accomplishing some times, when we can personally calculate the risks and come up with a plan, that we feel will work... hopefully...

Other FDNY awards and citations:

Index of FDNY Medals: (no guarantee it's current or accurate)

• Dr. Harry M. Archer Medal
• Brooklyn Citizens Medal/FF Louis Valentino Award
• Hugh Bonner Medal
• Emily Trevor/Mary B. Warren Medal
• Thomas E. Crimmins Medal
• Thomas A. Kenny Memorial Medal
• Walter Scott Medal
• John H. Prentice Medal
• Henry D. Brookman Medal
• M.J. Delehanty Medal
• William F. Conran Medal
• Mayor Fiorello H. LaGuardia Medal
• Chief John J. McElligott Medal
• Fitzpatrick and Frisby Award
• Thomas F. Dougherty Medal
• Albert S. Johnston Medal
• Ner Tamid Society Franklin Delano Roosevelt Medal
• Third Alarm Association Medal
• Vincent J. Kane Medal
• Brummer Medal
• Frank W. Kridel Medal
• Emerald Society Medal
• Chief Wesley Williams Medal
• Holy Name Society Medal (Brooklyn/Queens)
• Hispanic Society Memorial Medal
• Captain Denis W. Lane Memorial Medal
• Uniformed Fire Officers Association Medal
• Dr. Albert A. Cinelli Medal
• Fire Chiefs Association Memorial Medal
• Fire Marshals Benevolent Association Medal
• Community Mayors, Inc./Lt. Robert R. Dolney Medal
• Battalion Chief Frank T. Tuttlemondo Medal
• Dr. John F. Connell Medal
• New York State Honorary Fire Chiefs Association Medal
• Fire Bell Club Medal
• Firefighter David J. DeFranco Medal
• Lt. James Curran/NYFFs Burn Center Foundation Medal
• Father Julian F. Deeken Memorial Medal
• Lt. James Curran/NYFFs Burn Center Foundation Medal
• Firefighter Thomas R. Elsasser Memorial Medal
• Deputy Commissioner Christine R. Godek Medal
• Firefighter Kevin C. Kane Medal
• Probationary Firefighter Thomas A. Wylie Medal
• Captain John J. Drennan Memorial Medal

CBz

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Permalink Reply by AJ Zuccarelli on June 12, 2011 at 10:27pm

Bill, I am confused. What this appears to me (correct me if I am wrong), is the FDNY showing appreciation for the courage, bravery and selfless acts that its members have performed. Many of which resulted in lives being saved, and almost, if not all of which, involved the members placing their lives in jeopardy.
Correct me if I am wrong, but last I checked, that was our JOB. Not to stand outside, breathing air and squirting water in through a window, not to go, oh I might get hurt, better not do this, and give an innocent a chance to live. All of these members have the training, dedication, motivation and education to make the decision to place their lives in jeopardy. That is what sets them, and other big city or urban firefighters apart from the rural, one fire a year in a busy year firemen. This is armchair quarterbacking, and honestly, I did not expect this from you. I would much rather see the energy that the fire service spends promoting the "dont die" message turned into a campaign of, "Here is how to recognize and avoid situations that will kill you, and how to get out of them", so we can continue to provide the highest quality customer service to Mrs. Smith.

Bravo and a tip of the leather to the Brothers.

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Permalink Reply by Bill Carey on June 13, 2011 at 7:22am

"This is armchair quarterbacking, and honestly, I did not expect this from you."
AJ Zuccarelli

AJ,

You are mistaken. I have written "If, as the research in victim survivability profiling states, firefighters die for victims that could be deemed unsurvivable then what do the actions cited and awarded today in New York City say? Is there a mixed message? I personally don't think so, - " It is not at all armchair quarterbacking as I have not brought up any specifics regarding the Putnam Avenue fire, nor is it armchair quarterbacking of any of the incidents cited in the FDNY Medal Day program.

Back when Ray McCormack delivered his FDIC keynote speech, the department stepped in because certain things Ray had said were contrary to the safety messages the department was trying to deliver, and the attitude towards safety the department was trying to instill upon its members. Following the messages presented in Marsar's Victim Survivability Profiling research, and subsequent articles promoting its implementation, it is noticed that the conditions found during Putnam Avenue would have been a proponent for VSP and as such the victim would have died and Firefighter Demontreux would not have suffered the burns he did.

Since my partner Dave had written an earlier post on Firefighter Demontreux and the Putnam Avenue fire, and the fire had received earlier recognition, I thought it fitting to ask what I have heard in some circles as I travel and work, "Are medals contrary to safety messages?"

As I wrote, I personally don't believe they are. While they might have a slight impact on a immature firefighter's personal behavior, I believe the line of duty death numbers tell a much different story.

Bill Carey

p.s. - Mike Schlags.
The FDNY's highest award is the Dr. Harry M. Archer medal given every third year to one of the previous years' medal winners. It will be awarded next in 2012.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 13, 2011 at 9:57am

Thanks for the clarification here Bill. I was amazed at how many awards that existed and the level of heroism and potential self sacrifice exemplified by these firefighters.

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Permalink Reply by Moose on June 13, 2011 at 10:50am

I agree mike. I was a little dissapointed about my situation and it was exactly like you say.
I won the "Firefighter of the Year" award in my past department in 1994, and I was realy proud of it. However, I continued my efforts to always train and learn something new and do the best I could, regardless of any award.
When I reached the level of Lieutenant in 2002, I was included in the panel of officers that chose the firefighter of the year recipient for that year and I got crushed...The chiefs exact words were at the start of the meeting "Waddya say we give it to "XYZ" firefighter, he hasnt won one yet and I want to get home to watch the yankees" I instantly though of my award and how they went about selecting me for it, was my name drawn from a hat? Did they play "Pin the tail on the jackass" and I won?

I dont believe in that award any more unless there are strict guidelines to who receives it and why. It should be an extreme service to the community or department such as training hours, fire prevention activities within the community above and beyond, writing a grant to receive a much needed piece of equipment, ETC. Instead it has become a popularity contest and its pathetic.

My county had a county wide firefighter of the year award once...They had a big dinner and award ceremony, and the recipient of the one and only award given out was someone who none of the county members felt deserved the award, he did nothing above and beyond for the department he belongs to let alone the county, saved no lives, attained no impressive amount of training or did anything special to benefit anyone in the county yet he won. They dont have that anymore and rightfully so.

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