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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on October 6, 2009 at 3:18pm

Is this the standard for the whole country or can cities and areas determine their own. Basically does the City of Copenhagen send the same response as Aars would? Also is this only for say a fire alarm sounding and not a confirmed structure fire?

For us, it used to be we would send 3 pumps, a ladder, an ambulance, and battalion chief for any fire response. This is still the case for a fire response, but now only the first due engine will run lights and sirens to the scene, vs everyone. However, if the call comes in as smoke showing or fire showing, everyone goes lights and sirens.


Another question is what is the typical building construction for your country? Do you use a lot of lightweight wood truss construction?

I have been to Eurpoe a few times and stopped in a firehouse in Manchester, England and talked shop. It was neat to see how other countries do things. I did notice though, there most of the homes were of ordinary masonry construction with established fire walls and so on limiting fire spread. Here in the states, wood construction is very common and light weight truss is used quite extensively, meaning buildings here are not as solid, so if fire departments here don't respond quick enough without enough personnel, the structure can be lost quickley, not to mention the fire spread entrapping victims.

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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on October 6, 2009 at 3:27pm

Hi John..

It was always as stated above... But ofcourse, if the firedepartment wants to send 2 tankers or something like that, they could do it...
But this didn't happen that often.. The law said that a rural fire department had to have a hosetender, engine and a tanker.... Then you try to convince a mayor to spend X money on an extra vehicle, when everybody else can do with just the required ;-)

Also, now that you mention Copenhagen, they are the only firedepartment in denmark not having a tanker, since they don't have any rural areas.

We have the same as in the UK.. Mostly masonry...
Therefore we use SCBA very often..

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Permalink Reply by Pascal Marchand on October 6, 2009 at 4:21pm

Thank for the informations and the pictures. Here to just eight years ago we change our response type to a form of risk based assignement the response vary now from one to five apparatus to a call depending on the type of call and the risk associated with the building

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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on October 6, 2009 at 4:23pm

It's been under way a long time in Denmark, but unfortunately some of the old officials and politicians didn't want to change it...
But in 2005 a law was made about risk based assessment, and then in 2008 it was 100% implemented.

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Permalink Reply by Oldman on October 6, 2009 at 4:31pm

We use a similar system for responses. Our running schedule is based on answers to questions from the calling party. A dispatch determinate pulls up the response apparatus. In my area, a residential fire assignment is 3 engines, 2 tankers, ambulance and a suppression chief. A commercial building gets 2 more engines, a Safety Officer, an additional chief and a ladder truck added. Vehicle and trash fires get a single engine. The assignments can be upgraded or downgraded as needed by the incoming units.

Great pix.

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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on October 6, 2009 at 4:34pm

For a normal residential fire we would mostly still send 1 tanker and 1 engine...
(if it's a normal 1-family house)..
But then again, most of the houses in Denmark is masonry, so we don't have the same problems as the US has with the light wooden structures...

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on October 6, 2009 at 5:02pm

Sunne,

Your “mødeplaner” sounds like what we call a pre-plan, which is a physical survey of any structure with hazards, hydrants, fire department connections, utility locations, exits, occupancies, restrictions and fire load noted with a predetermined response level.

We also have something called a box alarm, which is (often times is based on the preplan) a predetermined response level to either a type of call or a specific location. For a confirmed house fire it would be 3 engines, ladder, rescue, chief and one ambulance assigned. A second alarm would get one additional engine and/or ladder.

A tanker is assigned only for those areas that do not have hydrants (which are limited areas only.)

For a car fire (which is nothing more than a dumpster (trash can) fire on wheels usually 1 engine unless there is an exposure (in garage or next to a house.)

For power lines down, 1 engine, which may be upgraded if there are exposure or safety issues.

All in all it sounds like you are pretty much on form with how we typically do things here.

Finally, you should have no concerns with your English as it appears to be excellent and apparent that you have a better grasp of the English language than do many native born speakers/writers.

Stay safe
Jack

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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on October 6, 2009 at 5:10pm

Hi Jack..

Again, a big difference in the number of vehicles..
You send 3 enginges, a ladder, and a rescue to a house-fire..
Where we only send 1 engine and a tanker/or ladder..
- What is the staff on the vehicles?

We also have a very good hydrant-system in Denmark, but the tanker/ladder is almost always used anyway...
Also the hydrant-system in Denmark is the same as the normal water-supply, so we try to use the tankers before the hydrants for smaller things...
Mr and Mrs. Denmark gets a bit pissed off when they go to take a drink of water and it's all brown cause the firedepartment has drained the lines completely ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on October 6, 2009 at 5:27pm

Sune:

Staffing on the engine(generally) is 4: a driver, officer and 2 firefighters, ladder is typically 2-3. So within about 8-10 minutes of the alarm we will generally have 12-14 ff's on scene.

I think the difference in the engine assignments is that our wood frame/light weight wood and steel construction is more susceptible to burn-through and collapse than is your masonry (and I assume a fair amount of heavy timber) construction. The additional engines supply additional manpower as well as second and third hose lines (typically the second engine in will secure the water supply while the first engine is working off of tank water).

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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on October 6, 2009 at 5:31pm

That's a lot of personnel..

But yes, there is a big difference in the general construction-types in europe and the US...

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on October 6, 2009 at 5:46pm

Well you have to understand that for a working house fire there is going to be the initial attack line with a crew of 2-3, the ladder may start roof ventilation (if needed) or horizontal ventilation from the exterior, 2 ff's. If there are exposure issues there may be another 2 man crew on that hose line, plus a second, backup line - 2 man crew- to protect the first line in.

If needed there will be a primary search team of 2-3 ff's and a RIT of 2-4 ff's, remembering that the drivers stay with their apparatus. So on just the first alarm most of the manpower is absorbed into the various tasks, if additional apparatus or manpower is needed an additional alarm will be struck.

All the above being said, here most working fires are knocked down within a couple of minutes of arrival (mostly being kitchen/cooking fires or room and contents.) In the 9 years I've been here I've only seen one fire go to surround and drown, it was dispatched around 4am, had blown through the roof (no fire alarm system) and was called in by the local PD.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we are "that good" only that we are "that lucky." That and a fairly small coverage area, quick-ish response times, an affluent area, 'mostly' new construction and rigidly enforced building codes. But like I said, when we do lose one, it's a glorious sight!

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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on October 6, 2009 at 5:54pm

I think (and so does every other danish firefighter) that's its amazing how many people can be at a fire in the US...
But when you dissect it, it shows that everybody is going to good use...

We would send in an initial attack with 2 guys, and the 2 other would get the watersupply going, and then get ready to do whatever is needed (mostly nothing or a second attack)..

We are very bad at using offensive ventilation in Denmark.. we are not allowed to use it until the area affected by the ventilation has been searched..
Some stupid politician thought that it would be dangerous to start offensive ventilation.. ;-)

We don't have it divided into a attack and a search team like you guys have...
One team does the job.. And sometimes it would be nice to have more people...

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