Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by SamanthaRose on August 19, 2007 at 4:46pm

I absolutly agree...We have not figured it out either, I am trying to work with some of my guys now in building moral. There are so many other little cliques in the department that make it hard for everyone to come together and work as a team, on and off an emergency scene. There are the guys/girls with the the ego that think they are right all the time and not willing to listen to others opinions and ideas, that may be better then their own. Bringing everyone together to create the actuall Brother-Sister relationship is what needs to happen first. We need to re-unite everyone to build up, to be there for eachother in our own personal times of need, to be there in a community crisis, and to be there to help the surrounding communities.

Permalink Reply by Jennifer on August 20, 2007 at 3:42pm

In our department we used to be the few who actually worked together and watched other companies around us with their clics. Now we have the clics and the ones that actually run the calls are the bad people and the ones in charge are always right.
We have had a good amount of new people join our company but they are soon overcome by the lies and lack of training. Unfortunately everyone is concerned about themselves and their power instead of being concerned about the safety of the members and protecting our community. As of now most people do not show up for training or calls because it is not fun anymore.

Permalink Reply by SamanthaRose on August 20, 2007 at 6:21pm

The officers for the most part, chief, 1st and 2nd assistant are all great people and have a great knowledge of the department, it is the little people and I include myself in this that have their butts up where the sun does not shine. I grew up in my department, and have a great pride in it, I do not like some people however, I work along side them when I have to. I agree that as new people come in they try to find a place for themselves and end up getting locked into the lies of certian cliques, and loose the opportunity to really find a good spot for themselves.

Permalink Reply by JP Moore on August 20, 2007 at 7:52pm

Moral is a huge issue in our department as well. Cliques are an issue, but our biggest issue for the past two years has been more political than anything else there has been a near constant struggle over who should have control over the future of the organization's future. Much of it has been resolved (on paper at least) but quite a few people still feel the sting of the debate. Thankfully we have always managed to get the trucks out the door, but moral around our company is at an all-time low from what I can see.

Politics aside, I find is discouraging at times when I look around and see that 80 percent of the work is done by less than 20 percent of the membership. This is of course not a situation unique to the volunteer fire service -- you'll find it in just about any community organization, but it is togugh to take when big projects drag on and on and on...

Thank goodness for the occasional "good fire" or good save... it makes all the B.S. worth it in the end.

Permalink Reply by JP Moore on August 20, 2007 at 8:14pm

The cliques within my department are more social than anything else. This is natural I suppose as, like you, several of the members grew up in the department... their fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers are or were members at one time... By all appearances our Ladies Auxiliary is all about cliques. The Explorer post (until recently) has been made up of son's and daughters, nieces and nephews of our firefighters, but that seems to be changing. Some of us, myself included, were new to the area when we joined the department and have had to find our own way. Being involved helps... the more calls attended the better (I hovered around 500 calls each of the past two years) and drilling as often as possible (and then some more), and being willing to pitch in wherever and whenever asked (or even when not asked). The is of course... that all this work (and it is work) doesn't include some element of fun... it only can lead to burn out... and who needs that. IMO, fun, and friendship... although not necessarily the reason for what we all do as firefighters, EMT's, first responders, etc., needs to be nurtured among our volunteer brethern as much as anything else we do, if only to keep the volunteers motivated and the trucks rolling.

Permalink Reply by Merritt Long on August 21, 2007 at 8:03pm

Since the tradic events of 9/11 recruiment has bee na serious challenge through out the county. Alot of folks out there just cant seem to find the time to help themself's out. One of the things we are trying is to focus on the younger crowd and starting to get them more active with events and drills. Still hard to do when NYS keep changes what you can and can't do with probationary fireifghters and or Junior's

Permalink Reply by SamanthaRose on August 22, 2007 at 6:38pm

I do feel that there are so many limits placed on us by the state, but in reguards to the 9/11 issue, I think that some people after 9/11 joined for the true meaning of firefighting and that other's joined because they wanted a peice of the glory. They saw true heros on TV and wanted to be a part of it, they wanted to be a hero too, but not in the for the better good of things, they did it to get attention, not to just be there when someone needed them.

Permalink Reply by JP Moore on August 22, 2007 at 9:01pm

After 9/11 some of us expected a major bump in new recruits due to a renewed sense of pride in firefighting, but at least in my own department can't say the flood ever happened. My experience in my own department tells me that If people were motivated only by the tragedy of 9/11 to join ~ they either kept it to themselves, found other reasons to stick around, or left quietly.

Permalink Reply by LadyChaplain on August 24, 2007 at 11:01pm

In my neck of the woods, I would have to say that aside from the standard recruitment/retention, training and safety... I think we need to keep the company politics/differences/rivalries to a minimum. I know that my company has been removed from numerous mutual aid plans and for pretty piss-poor reasons (IMO). I honestly believe that the higher ups should be able to talk to one another to discuss differences instead of just changing mutual aid plans. For years and years Bellevue was the automatic second alarm for South Line... and all of a sudden, one day... it became Twin District in as the automatic second for SouthLine and Bellevue (despite the relative close proximity) nowhere to be seen.

I also believe that fairness and equal rights are something to be discussed as well. I, as a female firefighter, have been the subject of sexual harassment which in turn has made it very hard for me socially at the firehouse. People are afraid to talk to me, or resent me for "ruining a firefighter's life". In my opinion, it never had to get to that point if a little bit of education had taken place early on. And then I completely understand the role of the rookie in the firehouse. It's that rite of passage that everyone must go through - but there is always that fine line between good fun and hazing.

Permalink Reply by JP Moore on August 26, 2007 at 3:56pm

Well said LadyChaplain! I suspect there is quite a story to be told somewhere therein.

IMO, it’s good and right to be proud of being firefighters... but when we become so proud of ourselves that we can do nothing without tripping over our own Ego, there is something wrong. When ego gets in the way then we forget about what is right, and that is to watch each other’s back, not stab it.

As for hazing and harassment; we, all of us… officers, vets, experienced firefighters, and cocky new recruits… all have to do the right thing and put and end to such behavior, or better yet let it be known that it won’t be tolerated even before it starts.

I know... I know... we have all heard around the fire house about how important tradition and history is... but harassment of any kind... and hazing, and holding grudges against another department or company, officer or firefighter that causes us to stray in our duty to one another, must not be tolerated in the fire service. If it is… one day it is going get some one killed, even if only because of a moments delay, hesitation, or lack of action when it is needed most.

Permalink Reply by Robert Rider on August 31, 2007 at 8:52pm

Cliques have always and will always be a problem in ever dept. out there. What has become a problem is the strict mandates being handed down, not only on the state end but on the federal end also. I just finished helping out with the Firefighter 1 class and was in shock at all the for lack of a better word BULLSHIT these recruits have to go through. Now you are taking manpower and equipment just to do two evolutions in a burn room with no more than hay and pallets. You have to have three trucks on hand with manpower, two seperate hydrants for two pumpers and a F.A.S.T available for any problem when there are 5 state instructors on hand and the burn room is only 10' inside the door.Don't get me wrong I totally believe in firefighter safety but enough is enough. Then there is the political end where everyone wants there hands on the money that the volunteers get from taxes. What about the hoops that we have to jump through to get a county or state class in your area. I am tired of going to a company for a class that does not even perform that special operation so there are no tools on hand to actually learn from. I don't know if anyone agrees with me but theses are a few things that are bothering me and bringing my morale down to it's lowest in 12 years.

Permalink Reply by Kevin Jewett on September 2, 2007 at 1:38pm

I agree with the Firefighter 1, i just finished the boot camp at the towers. For the burn sessions we had to had a fast team and instructors and 6 or 8 pieces of equpment. and with some of not having the manpower how are we suppost to get vechles there i know our selves we have a BRAND NEW engine and squad. in tearms we dont have very many drivers. the only ones that can drive them are the ones on the committee and thoes people are not around all the time.

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