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Five Minutes in the Street: Making the Call...
You’re the first-due company officer. Your company has arrived at a well involved and progressing fire in a two story wood frame (Type V), residential occupancy, housing two families; one on each floor. It’s 03:50 hours.
You have a report of trapped occupant on the number two floor either in the hallway or bedroom.
The fire is rapidly extending, you observe pre-flashover conditions on the second floor based upon the smoke assessment.
You have a six person crew, half are experienced the other half are relatively new. The second due company is at least 5-6 minutes out.
What are you going to do?
You have a limited widow of opportunity….
Think about realistic tactical objectives and tasks…
Think about the time factors…
What are you going to do...YOU have to make the call and right now…?
BTW, you did not pick up a hydrant coming in...but you have a 1000 gallon tank on the engine...
Did I mention, you've got family members "screaming" at you to do something....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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One like I said in my response I just want ot lay out not hook it up or charge it just put it on the ground. Thats it if that is gonna effect the rescue in a negative way then you all need to go back to training.
Second you say should be able to stop the flashover but if you can't then what now???? if you have to go defensive or add additinal lines to control the fire you are now behind the the curve and will not rescue anyone or put the fire out.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Every second you spend laying that supply line is a second that is wasted getting the rescue started. If you lay it out and don't charge it, then you really wasted the time. Why spend time putting dry hose on the ground when you have a known rescue problem???
And...if you can't stop the amount of flashover that you see in a structure of that size and type with 5 minutes of 200 GPM, then your company has problems that no amount of water supply will fix.
Even if it takes 30 seconds or less to lay the supply line, that's 30 seconds that the fire is damaging the exterior stairs. If those stairs go, then the rescue problem just got exponentially worse.
Your department may have a rule about the 1st due engine always establishing water supply. The problem with absolutes like "always" is that it eliminates part of the thought process for the 1st-due officer. We need officers that can think, not ones that just blindly follow rules that may not fit the situation.
And remember, we only have 5 minutes. If we spend 30 seconds or a minute laying supply line, we just wasted 10% to 20% of that time for something that won't contribute to the rescue. That's a steep price to pay for following a rule that doesn't allow an officer to make a situational decision.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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especially when a reverse lay will drop off additional personnel at the scene of the fire while the driver/operator can reverse lay to the hydrant and make the connections. Much less time wasted this way
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Chris,
To simplify the earlier comments that several of us made, I think this one comes down to 4 things:
1) Get water flowing and knock the flashover in Div. 1
2) Protect the exterior stairs - the Div. 1 attack should get this done as well
3) Search the upstairs and locate the occupants
4) Remove the occupants
1) and 2) accomplish two objectives with one move - knock the flashover and slow the fire, and protect the easy access to the rescue problem.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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You're thinking in the right direction......!
What are the risks you're considering and do you have any contingents in mind?
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No, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I started timing hose drills in 1983, and I've never seen a layout over 100 feet that didn't take at least 30 seconds to a minute, even when the engine was driven dangerously fast. If I'm the fire, I just LOVE that extra time.
Not leaving anyone at the hydrant adds 50% manpower to the upstairs search, and gives us the ability to rescue an additional victim without making a second trip upstairs...while that 1,000 gallons on the engine lasts, yanno?
Not searching above active flashover improves firefighter safety a lot, too.
I'm not spending any time filling out any NIMS forms for my IAP on this one - just quick assignments and praying that my new guys don't screw it up despite the adult supervision.
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I wouldn't reverse lay on this one, as it also wastes time. It also puts the pumper and the equipment farther away from the fire in a situation where every second counts. If we lose the exterior stairs, I don't want to have to send anyone running to a pumper a football field away to get a ground ladder to reinforce the stairs.
We have enough water for a 1-minute setup and a 5-minute, 200 GPM attack. The 2nd due should be here with the supply line prior to that.
The scenario specified "on scene, no supply line laid" anyway.
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the risk is that we may not be able to quell the fire to a level of exit protection for our search team. The contingent I have in mind would be the ladders on the D side (Since the fire is on side B) to the second floor windows. With any luck, the fire will be knocked down to a manageable level to allow victim extrication using the deck but we have an alternative escape in place should the second due not achieve water in time. (even if unlikely to occur we still need to cover our rear ends)
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The driver can throw ladders after he gets water going.
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Permalink Reply by Marques Bush on
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Ben LMAO! I have learned a lot with the comments and if you refer back to my original comment you will see my initial actions were not far off from yours. Its just kind of fun playing devils advocate. Chris great scenario.
My risk I'm considering are the fact that the second floor could already be weak and spongy due to fire and could just waiting on us to collapse. As far as contingency not so sure.
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with the fire pre flashover, the potential of a super spongy floor are not likely. (although not impossible)
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Since I'm the experienced member going upstairs, I'm going to sound the hell out of the floor as I go. So are the rookies if they do side-room searches off the upstairs hallway. I'm also using a TIC to see if the floor has any serious hot spots or fire peeking through.
If any of those are a problem, I'm bailing after I get my two rookies out. Good thing our search rope is made from Kevlar.
I may consider selective laddering and VES as Plan B. If the fire continues to spread despite the 200 GPM hitting it, then it may be smart to go defensive and not risk tag-team funeral processions.
The 2nd engine getting water supply and a truck company getting there to help with ladders and search are important, but not as important as the EMS Task Force assignment to care for the victims we just rescued.
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