Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on October 13, 2008 at 8:56am

NO. How is that for a simple answer? We do not have to use twin ropes. We can use SRT. However, the lawyers would have a field day if we fell and did not have a bely system. That would be my guess as to why we so heavily over engineer our systems. On the other hand, we are human and so are our team members, I am all for redundancy in our systems. The ground is really hard when you fall onto it.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on October 19, 2008 at 3:34pm

Would they have a field day?

I'm not sure they would unless there is clear documentation (such as legislation, standards, etc) that dictate twin rope. Don't know....

How many people have actually seen a single rope failure on a system that was set up properly and used correctly? There's loads of war stories....

Permalink Reply by TrainingTECH1 on November 5, 2008 at 7:12pm

You know, it all boils down to what your objective is. If you need rapid access, SRT. If not, why not go with a two rope system. I am not worried about the equipment failing, I am worried about someone failing the equipment.

Not using a two rope system requires a lot of faith in team members and adequate training.

Permalink Reply by Steve Dykema on December 18, 2008 at 8:24pm

In Michigan, we only teach 2 line systems for high angle. The only time we teach one rope is for a low angle evolution. I personally think a 2 line system is the safest. The systems were built by humans, as were the ropes and hardware. We have had no trouble on my department's team using a 2 rope system.

I have not seen a rope system fail, but, I have seen a member get stuck on his belay using a 2 line system. He was hung up when he did not man his belay on the second line.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on December 18, 2008 at 8:58pm

I have not seen a rope system fail, but, I have seen a member get stuck on his belay using a 2 line system. He was hung up when he did not man his belay on the second line.
Steve, doesn't this then throw up an argument AGAINST a twin rope system?

Permalink Reply by Dave Reed on January 8, 2009 at 3:39pm

Over - complicate !!!
KISS

Permalink Reply by Dave Reed on January 8, 2009 at 3:44pm

Build you system to be fast and simple .

Adding a second system to add safety is time consuming and adds confusion --the potential to create failure increases You are adding more to be managed and remember your gear & system is already at a 15: 1 safety un heard of any were else.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on February 20, 2009 at 11:07pm

Luke,

I've seen three rope failures in situations that met your definition.

Two were vertical situations where the belay caught the load.
One was a single highline across a river where a rescue went for a nasty swim after the highline failed.

I've used single rope technique in the past, but I don't do it any more.
It's just too easy to do it with two ropes in most places.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on February 20, 2009 at 11:10pm

That works until the rope is stressed in ways that the manufacturer didn't intend it, the edge isn't padded or the pad slips, or the team mismanages the line and does something like raising the load and hangs it up under an overhang, where it's now stuck indefinately.

The potential for failure increases with the lack of redundency.
Two-rope systems are used successfully and routinely.
All it takes to be proficient with these is some planning and training.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on February 20, 2009 at 11:13pm

It's easy to release stuck belays. Either build a load-release hitch into the belay system or use a small pig rig to unweight the belays.

It's just as easy to stick a load with a single-rope system.
Try raising a load and getting it hung under an overhang with the system tensioned.
Releasing it wil be difficult to impossible, depending on the belay system.
There is also a strong possibility of shock-loading the system when it comes free.
Shock loading can introduce a number of elements into the rope system - all of them bad.

Permalink Reply by TrainingTECH1 on March 14, 2009 at 1:59pm

Dave -

Technically, there is no 15:1 safety in any rope system where a knot, hitch or hardware is built into it.

I can see using SRT in certain circumstances, but once you have moving ropes my opinion is you should add a belay; when the rope is loaded with 2 or more people, use a 2 rope system.

Dave are you from the US? Most folks who do not like 2-rope systems are not, that is why I ask.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on March 15, 2009 at 5:39pm

Dave are you from the US? Most folks who do not like 2-rope systems are not, that is why I ask.
Profile says, "Pawtucket Rhode Island, United States"

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