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NFPA -- Friend or Foe to the Volunteer Fire Department
Do you feel the NFPA and the NFPA Standards, are a Friend or a Foe, to the Volunteer Fire Departments.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian Grace on
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The integrated pass devices in the SCBA. All of the standards are made by a committee...who is on that committee....MANUFACTURERS. This is not a secret or a conspiracy, it is a fact. The integrated pass device standard was altered to meet a specific company whose CEO was on the standard commitee. This happens everyday
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Permalink Reply by Eric Scheirer on
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Well don't get me started, some of their latest sugestions all most tore our department apart. Don't get me wrong they do have a valid concerns and most of their standard do make thing safer, but they do come out with some real winners.
One of the most recent winners is about wearing lime green vest while working a mva, great more visability means more safety, right,. ??? Have you ever had a simple rollover suddenly flash because of a fuel leak that was either missed at first assesment or develope dureing extrication proccess. I haven't found fire proof saftey vests,. And how about changeing the hours required for ff1 and killing essentials basically, don't they know what volunteer means?? I guess if I wasn't married with kids and had to work ,the hours would be doable, maybe NFPA should be made to pay our salary while we attend classes that require a high amount of hours or atleast set it up so you can take portions of the requirements a little at a time say in 4, 8, 12 hour classes. well that just a few thoughts......
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Permalink Reply by Flyinghi72 on
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Steve,
The committees that develop the NFPA standards are made up of many different types of people and are a balanced committe made up of 30 people who range from firefighters, fire chiefs, fire marshals, manufacturers, and many other different types of industries. Anyone can serve on these committees and they can only have 1/3 of any one of the nine interest catergories. and it is the public or the users of these documents that provide the changes...not a board or some other entity.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Tator on
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Honestly Eric? That is your only excuse to not follow NFPA Standards? Valid, but sounds like THAT GUY that says he will never wear a seat belt because if he flipped and got trapped he couldn't get out and would burn to death...or that being ejected is safer than staying in the car...also, do all your EMS and Fire personnel working the wreck wearing full PPE to include their flash hoods and firefighting gloves just in case the car does "suddenly flash", I don't think Latex Gloves and Extrication Gloves provide enough Fire Protection...if you have ever worked a scene where Firefighters and Police Officers were killed at a MVA scene where the excuse was they could not see the workers, you would understand this "standard"...
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Alex Arnold on
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I would have to disagree Ashley. I am from a small "very small" department in NE Washington State. I have been a member of the NFPA for over 3 years now. I have had the opportunity to be on an advisory board. It is quite entailed and alot of good discussion takes place. They are continually trying their best to make a positive difference in this service. They especially try to take into consideration these smaller areas that are served by volunteer districts.
I am not sure what is posted here later in discussion but, we must remember that these are recommended standards. They are not "official" unless your agency has on paper stated they are going to FOLLOW NFPA STANDARDS. That is the simple way of stating it. You can google it see how many departments have "accepted" these standards and follow them 100%, not many if any. Now here in our department we use them in creating our SOPs and we defintily follow has many as we can ie 1400, live fire training.
Be safe and learn something new today.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Andrew:
And I would add that, even if the vest does somehow catch on fire, Eric should be wearing a fire resistant FIRE COAT, so worst case, it might smell and you have to take a brush and OxyClean to your turnout coat.
Some people would rather risk cutting an artery than to be told to always cut away from you. They will find an excuse to tell you why they have to cut towards themselves.
Higher visibility at MVAs is crucial to safety. Then, we just have to get the idiots driving engaged enough to slow down at a scene.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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One of the most recent winners is about wearing lime green vest while working a mva, great more visability means more safety, right,. ??? Have you ever had a simple rollover suddenly flash because of a fuel leak that was either missed at first assesment or develope dureing extrication proccess. I haven't found fire proof saftey vests
Here's 3 Flame Resistant, Hi Vis Vests- will these do?
http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/ed8255hl.html
http://www.mlkishigo.com/pdf/F300.pdf
http://hudsonworkwear.com/hwsvinfo.html
Sounds like an excuse....
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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"One of the most recent winners is about wearing lime green vest while working a mva, great more visability means more safety, right,. ??? Have you ever had a simple rollover suddenly flash because of a fuel leak that was either missed at first assesment or develope dureing extrication proccess. I haven't found fire proof saftey vests" - Eric Scheirer
I should point out that it's been mentioned several times as well as printed in the actual NFPA standard: The vest is not to be worn at a fire! As far as a rollover suddenly flashing during extrication, that's what the firefighter manning the charged hoseline is there for!
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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Read again who makes up the "boards" of NFPA. ANYONE can be a member and serve on a committee. They aren't "ONLY" the manufacturers and there are MANY highly trained knowledgable fire fighters on them such as Chief officers, Batalian Chief's, Safety Officers, Fire Inspectors, Fire Marshalls and others who have been in the business for many years. The STANDARDS are written to address firefighter health & safety, not particular products. Once the standards are approved THEN the manufacturers have to produce the equipment TO THAT STANDARD. Sure the mfgs of PPE made some money when the standard went from cotton duck and rubber to kevlar & nomex. NOT because THEY came up with a better idea to make money, but to help firefighters not get burned. The SCBA folks sold a lot of equipment when they decided that everybody had to wear SCBA in an IDLH atmosphere. Again, the standard wasn't set to make money for them, but to keep US from killing our selves breathing smoke. I don't think anyone sits around dreaming up ways to make money as much as to keep us healthier and safer in doing our jobs. There are reasons we don't ride tail boards and don't wear plastic helmets or rubber gloves and have equipment bolted down in the cab. There are reasons we carry PASS devices on our SCBA and have reflective material on our gear & apparatus. That reflective material doesn't help us put the fire out but it does a lot more than make the truck look pretty. There are reasons we practice Incident Command and accountability.
To answer the question, I don't believe NFPA or NIOSH or any other organization that sets standards even consider whether you are a Volunteer fire fighter or not. We are FIREFIGHTERS period. There is no distinction between career & volunteer. The dangers are the same for both. The fire doesn't know or care if you draw a paycheck or not.
Which BIG ISSUES do you consider have been missed? What doen't make sense?
I do however beleive that access to those standards should not be by subscription only.
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Permalink Reply by Dustin J. Millis on
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Even though sometimes we may not agree with the standards being placed, they are the law and we have to follow them no matter if we agree or not. My opinion, NFPA = friend to ANY fire department. The whole point of making those standards is to keep FF's safer, and usually; they are placed into effect because a FF was injured or killed doing exactly what that standard is now changing. Anybody that is against keeping FF's safer is an idiot
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Eric, use your brain man!!! For starters, that reflective vest is to be worn over your turnout coat. Second, I can give you a list of all the FF's injured or killed while working MVA's just in the last TWO MONTHS that could take up a whole page if you would like. So as far as I'm concerned, anything to make working MVA's safer is a good thing.
I read your post further to only see that you are complaining about the number of hours you had to spend in training and wanting to get paid for them. Wow man, you are really something. What did you think "volunteer" meant when you signed the application???
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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If that is the case, then why does every company that makes integrated PASS have a different type, layout, etc.? That standard applies to ALL SCBA, not just one company's product.
Every SCBA manufacturer has a different way of meeting the standard, too. Virtually the only things about SCBA that are standardized are the cylinder threads and the universal rescue connectors.
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