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Promotion vs. OT
Do you think departments are missing out on the best qualified people for chief officers because of OT policies. A local Capt. here had to take a $20K pay cut to accept a chiefs job. No more overtime. Most dept. I know now would rather use OT to fill vacation/sick/etc leave that to hire a full time FF. 1.5 for OT compared to 1.6 for a FF with benefits
In the long run he is probably going to be better off retirement wise, but that's just a huge pay cut. I don't think if I was in his position today, I could do that. Mortgage, 3 kids in college, etc.
In the long run he is probably going to be better off retirement wise, but that's just a huge pay cut. I don't think if I was in his position today, I could do that. Mortgage, 3 kids in college, etc.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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Being a volunteer, my Chief and I have the same salary, it's called Pride ($0). Sounds like your local Captain has a lot of pride for advancing his career regardless of now not getting OT. His department is blessed to have him as a Chief. God bless us all. TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Christian on
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In my job it is sort of the same thing. Sure it would attract more people if you had the oppertunity for overtime, but if someone really wants to do the job they will.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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The answer to your question is YES, absolutely!
Speaking from experience and being in a paid firefighter position. There are many things that happen to cause this issue. It is simply not just an OT issue. Many have their hands tied because of money and can't apply (even though I was asked to) for many past positions like the Fire Training Officer all the way to Deputy Fire Chief.
The issue is complex. You are right he may lose 20K. What I see in my organization, a Captain who takes a Chief Officer position will not lose any money on paper. (base hourly pay to chief salary pay) His salary is usually more than a shift captain but the Captain will definately lose more benefits like going from shift work (2 days / 2 nights paid on a 42 hour base) to Day Staff (monday-friday). Loss of free time, second or third jobs, family time and/or if still young the increased childcare needed to go 5 days a week instead of 2. Yes, Chief's are salary, usually are not allowed to claim any overtime for all those late night call backs, council meetings and training etc.. Because they are SALARY.
Then other things people don't see is union contracts have driven up firefighter and line officer pay and municipalities usually do not move up the salaried staff positions equally. Like a 4% negotiated COLA and the market COLA is 3%. Some municipalities will only give salary people the market COLA. Plus some of the salary Chief Officer's pay more for their health insurance than do the union firefighters. You see over the years, with the economy, the financial gap between the two bodies close and the attractiveness of a salary position just lacks luster.
This is why, you do not see younger Chief's in the position. Because if they climbed the ladder and have responsibilites like you state, with 3 kids, mortgages and college tuition etc. They just can't afford it. I make double what my current fire chief makes in pay between my shift pay, OT, and my second job. He is on duty 24-7 and paid 40. You see the postings come out and most of the progressive line officers who are qualified, just smile and say nope not for me...
Solution: If municipalities would just pay the Chief Officer's hourly with OVERTIME instead of being salary, you would definately see the number of qualified candidates much higher in the process.
Pride goes a long way... I was a volunteer once but it doesn't pay the bills. I would have to ask any volunteer who was making 50K at his or her other job this. Would you take a promotion knowing you would have longer hours, (mostly unpaid) more responsibility, maybe your insurance premiums will go up too, would you do it for 20K less than if you just stayed as a workerbee in your career and get paid OT to work a few hours after 40. Most can't because you need to pay your bills at home too.
I would like to hear from some other U-brothers on their take...
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Permalink Reply by Dan Thomas on
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THIS is where the line gets drawn in the sand between volunteer and career members. Like someone already said pride doesn't pay the bills...the paycheck does. My department SUFFERS year in and year out because the city fills would-be FT positions with Part-time personnel. We get OT only for recalls and for drills and NOTHING else unless the shift is going to be empty (minus both Full-timers). We are currently working 2 shifts that only have 1 full-timer working with 2 to 3 part-timers. I got my first 24 hour OT shift on Friday last week and it was glorious to see on my check because my family depends on my pay check...they don't depend on my pride.
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The proud volunteer here again. My son, 23, is a FF/PM/Engineer in CA. He makes a substantial salary with out including OT. It would believe that his Chief makes more than my son's basic salary, which again is substantial. Is CA the only area where a FF, i.e. Chief, can make ends meet without OT?
I spent 36 years in the Army, advanced to the top, was paid below private industry wages but good none the less, raised three kids, spent days, weeks and up to a year at a time away from my home and family and made it through. Now that's OT with out extra pay. If I would have retired sooner the line of qualified candidates ready to take my position would have only been a little shorter. All knowing what the job included.That's where the pride comes in.
I have a lot of respect for that local Captain, he took the promotion, was able to adjust his finances, probably from good pre-planning and money management, and must now believe he can, as a Chief, maintain or improve that very important public service, his FD. All that and possibly have a better retirement package. I would probably do the same thing if I was him. TCSS
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Billy,
No disrespect to you sir, but you cannot compare the financial side of firefighting to the military unless you took a promotion that subordinates below you made more money at less rank? I am not sure, does that even happen in the military?
I was agreeing with Jay the original poster, because every few years I see the exact same thing happen that Jay is describing. Where I work the top paid personnel in the ENTIRE fire department are CAPTAINS because of a high base pay, negotiated incentives like Paramedic, College Degrees, Hazmat and Rescue Technician plus an aweful lot of shift coverage overtime. It is public record, as it was recently posted to the taxpayers in our newspaper.
And you incorrect about having a better retirement package with the promotion, allot of times the calculation for the best three years average comes from the years the guy was a Captain. You see I can't count how many times Captains took the promotion, lost all of their incentives because they are now a non-union employee, no more 5K to be a paramedic, 2,500 for the degree, 1000 for rescue technician or hazmat, etc. Then add on that his new health insurance package might be an 80/20 as compared to the union negotiated package of an 80/20 but delivered as a $5 co pay plan. That 20 can be thousands out of his new Chief's salary just for health care.
These positions are posted in house with very little internal interest and what occurs is someone from out west looks at the advertisement and says wow, 80K for Chief on the east coast. Some Captains are making 6 figures, looking at the end of their career's but stepping up to the next level would require getting paid less, sometimes allot less. Now before you jump on the salaries, the cost of living here is not comparable to other places. It is not unheard of to have a 10K per year property tax bill. Your monthly tax escrow is another mortgage payment.
Now it might not be that way in other places but that is what I have seen...
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