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Michigan Community Votes on Combined Public Safety Services; Joint Fire and Police Department
MIKE HOUSEHOLDER
Associated Press
HARPER WOODS, Mich. - Susan Uhl has lived in a "very Mayberry-like" neighborhood of Harper Woods for nearly two decades.
She and her future husband bought their 1,000-square-foot aluminum-sided ranch house in 1992 and moved in a year later after getting married. Over the years, the legal assistant has enjoyed the feeling of togetherness in the "typical, working middle-class" city of 14,236 that sits just northeast of Detroit and is dissected by Interstate 94, knowing either police officers or firefighters were a quick call away should the need arise on her tree-lined block of 80 houses.
These days, though, that sense of community has been strained, and Harper Woods finds itself divided as much politically as it is physically.
That's because voters on Tuesday will be asked to decide the contentious issue of whether to allow for the combination of the city's police and fire departments into a single public safety unit. Some police officers would be trained to fight fires, and some firefighters would learn how to patrol the streets.
Harper Woods and its fellow financially struggling city of Jackson 85 miles to the west are just the latest communities in the state and nation to propose the cost-saving measure.
Proponents see it as a necessary step to maintain the effective protection of citizens as the tax base shrinks and financial aid from Lansing dries up, while opponents worry that a public safety department would in reality lessen the public's safety.
The idea of creating public safety departments isn't new. In fact, Michigan is seen as a national leader, with communities such as Kalamazoo and Grosse Pointe Park having adopted the practice decades ago, and while Jackson and Harper Woods are putting it to a vote, several others in the state are currently considering it.
Uhl, 44, says she's voting against the measure because she's concerned about the plan's lack of specificity. She doesn't know what a Harper Woods public safety department would look like if the measure is approved.
"There's no plan," she said. "I need to know that if I dial 911, I won't hear we don't have any police available because they're out fighting a fire."
Leonard Matarese, director of public safety programs at the International City/County Management Association and a recognized authority on the subject, said combining the departments has been shown to work in other communities.
"Can you train personnel to do both? Of course you can," said Matarese, who in March accompanied a group of Swedish officials who are considering public safety departments on a tour of Michigan cities where the plan has become reality.
Although he cautioned no comprehensive study had yet been completed, Michigan State University criminal justice professor Jeremy Wilson said he has compiled a list of agencies that have formally consolidated police and fire functions. That research showed there are 125 such operations in the U.S. and 39 in Michigan.
It's a finding Wilson said demonstrates how dire the budget situation is for civic leaders in this state.
"What's happening in the economy, we're seeing things that generally have been protected in the past are completely on the table. Any option is considered," he said.
Jackson, a city of 33,534 that has lost 7.7 percent of its population over the past decade, plans to trim its police force of 56 by seven or eight officers in early May and also reduce its 26-person fire department by that same number by July.
Such moves are necessary, officials say, because of a 4.5 percent drop in property tax revenue.
Monetary issues aside, a firefighters' union is urging voters to oppose the measure because of the effect it expects it to have on safety.
A statewide television ad from the Michigan Professional Fire Fighters Union features a narrator who says "combining police and firefighters won't save lives."
Tracy Stanton says it will. "If this passes, I will get better protection," because it would mean more public safety officers on the street, said the 30-year-old nurse, wife of a Jackson police officer and daughter of a restaurant owner in the city.
The ballot proposals are revealing a rift between police and fire professionals. Many officers say they are willing to receive so-called "cross-training" to become licensed firefighters, while firefighters in some cases resist, fearing such a combination would create jacks of all trades who are masters of none.
"I have a lot of friends in the fire department. ... But what it comes down to is: The police officers are all willing to change and adapt to the environment we see with emergency services. ... The firefighters want to stay back in the days of old," where they sit around the fire house waiting for an emergency call," said Shane LaPorte, 41, a veteran Jackson police officer and SWAT member.
The run-up to the vote in Harper Woods has featured community-wide "informational meetings," aggressive door-to-door politicking and the widespread use of campaign signs. Uhl is proud to display two signs in her front yard that loudly advertise how she'll vote on the ballot measure: "No."
Matarese said the confusion over how the combined departments would work is a key issue. "I'm not sure the whole situation's been articulated properly," he said of the Harper Woods and Jackson votes, pointing out the widely held misconception that firefighters don't want to become police officers and vice versa.
In most public safety departments, police officers and firefighters are encouraged and offered incentives, but not forced, to receive cross-training. For those who refuse, they remain in their jobs until retirement, and any new hire automatically is trained as a public safety officer, Matarese said.
"Some can do both. Some can't. (But) nobody's forced," he said.
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Associated Press
HARPER WOODS, Mich. - Susan Uhl has lived in a "very Mayberry-like" neighborhood of Harper Woods for nearly two decades.
She and her future husband bought their 1,000-square-foot aluminum-sided ranch house in 1992 and moved in a year later after getting married. Over the years, the legal assistant has enjoyed the feeling of togetherness in the "typical, working middle-class" city of 14,236 that sits just northeast of Detroit and is dissected by Interstate 94, knowing either police officers or firefighters were a quick call away should the need arise on her tree-lined block of 80 houses.
These days, though, that sense of community has been strained, and Harper Woods finds itself divided as much politically as it is physically.
That's because voters on Tuesday will be asked to decide the contentious issue of whether to allow for the combination of the city's police and fire departments into a single public safety unit. Some police officers would be trained to fight fires, and some firefighters would learn how to patrol the streets.
Harper Woods and its fellow financially struggling city of Jackson 85 miles to the west are just the latest communities in the state and nation to propose the cost-saving measure.
Proponents see it as a necessary step to maintain the effective protection of citizens as the tax base shrinks and financial aid from Lansing dries up, while opponents worry that a public safety department would in reality lessen the public's safety.
The idea of creating public safety departments isn't new. In fact, Michigan is seen as a national leader, with communities such as Kalamazoo and Grosse Pointe Park having adopted the practice decades ago, and while Jackson and Harper Woods are putting it to a vote, several others in the state are currently considering it.
Uhl, 44, says she's voting against the measure because she's concerned about the plan's lack of specificity. She doesn't know what a Harper Woods public safety department would look like if the measure is approved.
"There's no plan," she said. "I need to know that if I dial 911, I won't hear we don't have any police available because they're out fighting a fire."
Leonard Matarese, director of public safety programs at the International City/County Management Association and a recognized authority on the subject, said combining the departments has been shown to work in other communities.
"Can you train personnel to do both? Of course you can," said Matarese, who in March accompanied a group of Swedish officials who are considering public safety departments on a tour of Michigan cities where the plan has become reality.
Although he cautioned no comprehensive study had yet been completed, Michigan State University criminal justice professor Jeremy Wilson said he has compiled a list of agencies that have formally consolidated police and fire functions. That research showed there are 125 such operations in the U.S. and 39 in Michigan.
It's a finding Wilson said demonstrates how dire the budget situation is for civic leaders in this state.
"What's happening in the economy, we're seeing things that generally have been protected in the past are completely on the table. Any option is considered," he said.
Jackson, a city of 33,534 that has lost 7.7 percent of its population over the past decade, plans to trim its police force of 56 by seven or eight officers in early May and also reduce its 26-person fire department by that same number by July.
Such moves are necessary, officials say, because of a 4.5 percent drop in property tax revenue.
Monetary issues aside, a firefighters' union is urging voters to oppose the measure because of the effect it expects it to have on safety.
A statewide television ad from the Michigan Professional Fire Fighters Union features a narrator who says "combining police and firefighters won't save lives."
Tracy Stanton says it will. "If this passes, I will get better protection," because it would mean more public safety officers on the street, said the 30-year-old nurse, wife of a Jackson police officer and daughter of a restaurant owner in the city.
The ballot proposals are revealing a rift between police and fire professionals. Many officers say they are willing to receive so-called "cross-training" to become licensed firefighters, while firefighters in some cases resist, fearing such a combination would create jacks of all trades who are masters of none.
"I have a lot of friends in the fire department. ... But what it comes down to is: The police officers are all willing to change and adapt to the environment we see with emergency services. ... The firefighters want to stay back in the days of old," where they sit around the fire house waiting for an emergency call," said Shane LaPorte, 41, a veteran Jackson police officer and SWAT member.
The run-up to the vote in Harper Woods has featured community-wide "informational meetings," aggressive door-to-door politicking and the widespread use of campaign signs. Uhl is proud to display two signs in her front yard that loudly advertise how she'll vote on the ballot measure: "No."
Matarese said the confusion over how the combined departments would work is a key issue. "I'm not sure the whole situation's been articulated properly," he said of the Harper Woods and Jackson votes, pointing out the widely held misconception that firefighters don't want to become police officers and vice versa.
In most public safety departments, police officers and firefighters are encouraged and offered incentives, but not forced, to receive cross-training. For those who refuse, they remain in their jobs until retirement, and any new hire automatically is trained as a public safety officer, Matarese said.
"Some can do both. Some can't. (But) nobody's forced," he said.
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tyler Lyons on
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At least they are not forcing anyone to do that... most of the cops are willing to become firefighters... well no kidding, they couldn't pass the test to become one, so they became cops... yeah they are willing. The fireman did pass and they don't want to take a step back and become cops.... it makes sense.
Ok for all the haters.. I'm kidding. I think it is good that no one is being forced to do both. There is so much training on each of the jobs that trying to do both I feel is a safety hazard. The people who are pushing this have no idea what it is to do either job and they are the ones like the dumbass cop that states "The firefighters want to stay back in the days of old," where they sit around the fire house waiting for an emergency call," said Shane LaPorte, 41, a veteran Jackson police officer and SWAT member. This guy will be a great firefighter if only he can get his head out of his ass long enough to get some air.
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Permalink Reply by Andy Turnham on
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Interesting bit of retro-thinking going on here. A lot of Fire Deoartments the world over started out as mixed Fire-Police depatments, but found it doesn't work so well, which is why very few remain.
Fire & EMT, that works well, same mind-set. Fire & Police, its only going to work for the Bean-Counters, police have to think differently from firefighters.
How many people do you know who were torn between a career in firefighting or law enforcement? Not many I bet.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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Actually, under the right conditions, this works out just fine.
I am very close to one of these departments (geographically), they have very little crime and very few fire calls. Very high end tax base and this situation has proven to work out very well for them.
To make a blanket statement that it won't work, can't work, and is the wrong way for everyone is like saying every fire department should be career or every department should be volunteer.
Just 2 weeks ago, a PSO from the city of Kalamazoo was shot in LODD. They are another example where this system works out for everyone. And they have a fair share of crime and fires.
Don't out and out condemn something without doing some research. It isn't for every city\township, but it is for some.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Cross Training is done to CONSOLIDATE and reduce the operating budget, (meaning pretty much reducing the budget by half) Now I am not a rocket scientist, but in a high end tax district with not much crime or fire calls as Mark states, does that mean a bean counter figured out that if the duty shift from the PD can be cross trained to fight fire, can they do both? Last time I checked it took alot of trained firefighters to put out a fire, and if they are putting out fires who is maintaining law and order or at least directing traffic. I say the FD should be careful in making sure they are still enough to fight a fire.
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Permalink Reply by Lt. Shane Peterson on
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I live just outside the City Of Kalamazoo where they are public safety(cross-trained). I know and work with several members of that dept. I will say that a lot of them take firefighting very seriously and are very good at it. And there are those that don't care for it at all and only do it because they have to. Kalamazoo has been doing it since the early 90's and it has worked for them. Personally i don't agree with it because i believe cops should be cops and firefighters be just that, firefighters. But if it works, then I guess go for it. I just hope those depts do a lot of research into it.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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There used to be a lot of cross-trained fire/police public safety departments in North and South Carolina. There are very few left now, mostly in small towns where the career firefighters are supplemented with volunteers.
The cops are usually so busy with cop work that the consolidation is essentially a way to reduce fire staffing without being able to guarantee that the cross-trained cops will be able to replace them at a fire.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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From what I can find online, the typical "consolidation" or cross-training is where the LEO's are cross-trained as firefighters (and typically, as paramedics), the rational being that since cops are most often first on scene they can actually begin incident mitigation (medically) and are able to be packed up and ready to work when the first engine shows up. Not an unreasonable concept.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-43722.html
http://www.usacops.com/sc/p29306/index.html
The idea of cross-training firemen to be cops, on the other hand, doesn't appear to have as much logic. Would an engine be dispatched for a 911 call for suspicious person, gunshots heard or a domestic dispute? Does one dress according to the (presumed) type of call?
Then there is the issue of agendas, specifically, personal ones.
Leonard Matarese is a "former" cop (apparently, not a retired one) who made some very interesting comments:
"Matarese was critical of fire departments whose personnel largely “sit around and wait” for work. When the consultant performed the 2007 Saginaw study, he estimated (emphasis added) firefighters worked an average of two hours in a 24-hour shift, he said." As a consultant one would think he would have documented this in an efficiency study.
"He also was critical of the method of attack for most fire departments. Matarese said a July 4 fire at his Buffalo home inflicted about $8,000 to $10,000 worth of damage, but the firefighters’ response added “hundreds of thousands of dollars” in water damage." Once again he is "estimating" what the fire damage was and the additional fire department damage.
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Matarese said some fire departments are purchasing “quick-attack” fire vehicles that differ from the traditional fire trucks that respond to blazes. The new vehicles carry about 10 gallons (emphasis added) of water and can meet fires with more haste, putting blazes out faster with less water, he said."
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2011/01/consultant_tell...
Ironically, the money spent on Matarese's consulting, studies et. al. could probably be put to better use, but then...that would simply make too much sense.
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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people who dont do the job should not comment, good christ 10 gallons this matarese needs to get a clue. whats his backround anyway?
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Permalink Reply by James Burton (Jamie) on
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I think that this can work, but in my opinion, stick to what you know. Not too long ago, I responded to a fire alarm in a very rural area, one of the local cops was sitting in his squad, drinking coffee, I walked up to the car and asked if he had seen anything or if anyone was in the building, he looked at me, took a sip of coffee and said "I love Firefighters, because they put out fires, if you want somebody shot, call me!" I had to smile......
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East GR probably has 1 structure fire per year. And they are supplemented by vollies\POC. In addition to a couple of the PSO's. Most of the time on automatic alarms they are cancelled by the cop (PSO) before they are even out of the station. They generally end up calling in at least one engine for MA when they do, as just about everybody around me does, as none of us have the manpower anymore.
I believe one of the cops is also a paramedic that handles most of the medicals. Used to be anyways.
They run fewer calls than the department I am on. We are in the 450-500 calls per year range.
They don't strip the city of cops when a fire comes in, either.
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Former cop
Current idiot.
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