Looking for input !!!

We are a small rural volly dept in northern Wi. We are looking to get a new water tender/tanker. We would like to get a 3,000 gal tank. Our issue is, do we go with a vaccum tanker, or 500 gpm pto tanker pumper. We have one dry hydrant in our district, we cover 110 sq miles. We run alot of mutual aid to neighboring communities, one of which has hydrants in the city only. Mutual aid is about 10 min out, and they run a 3,000 gal vaccum tanker. We have 2 tankers right now, 2,2oo gal each. We want to eliminate 2 old trucks and replace with 1 new and very much improved tanker. We only have 1 engine, 2006 1250 gal tank and pump. This is were our dilemma starts. Some of us think we should get a pumper tanker, and some think we just need a tanker. What are some of your opinions, pro's and con's, etc.... Thanks for any input.

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Permalink Reply by Justin Allen on May 10, 2009 at 3:03pm

my dept. just took delivery of a 2000 gal, 1250 gpm pumper tanker. we absolutely love it. it is a one man show w/ automatic dump valve switches located in the cab and by the dump valve itself. It gives us the ability to run hose from the tanker/pumper to the frontline engine to avoid deploying a dump tank on short manpower days, but then when we use the dump tank, it allows us to leave alot of water in the pool, while going on a run to get more. It also gives us the ability to protect additional structures that may be in danger from a grass/brush fire so that we dont have to call in mutual aid.

A couple fellow depts. in the county use 2 or 3000 gal. Water Master vaccum tankers that have a pump mounted on the chassis also.
-here are the websites:
http://www.southern-fire.com/tankers.html
http://deepsouthfiretrucks.net

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Permalink Reply by John Calender on May 14, 2009 at 10:19pm

You gave us dump time. But what is the draft hook up and fill and un hook time? And you where not the only to give this time,(Dump) You need to look at total time to fill and the manpower used to to this.

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Permalink Reply by John Calender on May 14, 2009 at 10:24pm

My input is go with the vaccum takner with and large PTO pump. With the vaccum you can load water from almost anywhere. and it loads itself. and it can be first out as an engine if needed. Did a demo and loaded water from about 60 ft. There was only about 4 ft lift.

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Permalink Reply by Corey Uranker on May 22, 2009 at 11:05am

Vaccum

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Permalink Reply by John Sees on May 22, 2009 at 8:36pm

Pump or no pump that is the question. I run with 2 rural companies, both volly, both have 2500 gal tankers, both tankers have 250 or 350 gpm portable pumps. Tanker 633 is a vaccum tanker, portable pump is mounted and connected to a discharge, open discharge and start pump you have water. We carry 100' of 1 1/2" rolled up in a compartment. This company also runs a 1500 gpm engine and a mini-pumper. Tanker 722 is a old milk tank with (1) 4" inlet/discharge each side and an 10" discharge in back, this company also runs a
2000 gpm engine and 2 bruch trucks. The pump on this tanker is carred in a compartment, you have to remove the pump from the compartment and use a hard sleeve when you pump. Both tankers carries 3" about 200' each and short sections of 5". The idea behind both tankers is to haul water only.
Both pumps are used for filling swiming pools. Both could be used to fight a small fire, but I can't remember the last time a portable pump was used at a fire. Station 7-2 wants to replace Tanker 722, I would like another vacuum tanker like Tanker 633, but everyone else wants a fire pump on it, so they can fight fire or pump to an engine. I guess that there is no right or wrong way, it depends on how you operate. No matter which way you go, pump or no pump, there are going to be times when the other way would work better.
Good luck. Let us know which way you go.

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Permalink Reply by paul michael komandt on May 22, 2009 at 11:29pm

Useing an engine at the fill site to fill tankers i can hook up, fill, and disconnect in under 3 mins for a 3,000 gals.

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Permalink Reply by John Sees on May 24, 2009 at 12:18am

My company took delivery of a 2500 gal. vacuum tanker about 1 1/2 years ago. Could you tell me how you are filling your tanker and discharging at the same time.
Thanks for information.

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Permalink Reply by FETC on May 24, 2009 at 8:26am

Bull I personally like the Pumper-Tanker concept as it provides your department with multiple options.

It is a backup pumper if a front line engine goes down or out for service.
It can roll on a second call if the engine is tied up and be a true engine.
If you are first due at a fire, (even mutual aid) you are now capable to be a true pumper.
Toned as a tanker but arrive earlier than the water supply pumper, you can dump and setup for drafting
If you operate as a two piece engine and tanker response. The two combined have incredible capability. You can nurse the first due engine with a real pump and not a lousy 250 gpm brush pump.
You can put the pumper tanker in an inline relay (long 1-mile lay for example) once the lines are laid and you have abandoned the water shuttle operation.

Here is a pic of ours. We are 90% hydrant protected so this was built specific for the 10% non-hydrant and for mutual aid responses (with us being quite often first due) KME 6 man cab, 515 HP; 2500 gallon / 2000 GPM Pump, with Foam - remote controlled telescoping 10" air dump chutes - Pumper Tanker.

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Permalink Reply by Jesse 202 on January 27, 2010 at 1:30am

I have to agree with you Nick xLTx, I do not know how these truck support their own weight yet alone when water is added. They are old military trucks and we have not had very good of luck with them, needless to say we still have them and are trying to get some new trucks through the Department of Conservation. The Conservation Department gave us these trucks but they now have some that they reffer to as "Twin Screws" and we are on the list for them. Sorry I cannot really give you a direct answer as to why these trucks hold their weight, but I simply don't know and I am just as curious as you. All I know is they DO. However I highly reccomend no one Fire Department to get these trucks if at all possible. They are all notorious for having shorts that cannot be traced and parts are expensive.