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Looking for an SOP for Fuel spills or HazMat on the road
Mostly looking for the procedure to which roadway blockage and personnel protective devices are used.
Thanks
Gary
Thanks
Gary
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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First off, I would mention that using policies verses guidelines puts your company officer into a box. If it is a guideline, then if something does go south on you, then you can have more room to correct the problem sometimes. Policies also make you identify all the possible scenarios verses using a more broad brushed approach, but then again... I live and work in a more litigious state than you do.
Whatever your policies / guidelines end up looking like, make sure that you focus on working with your highway patrol officers and road departments to coordinate your needs with theirs. This will save you a lot of grief down the road... (Pun intended!)
Good Luck!
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Texas HazMat on
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Good point and well received.
Thanks Cap
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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when I went threw my hazmat classes just recently the instructor was with the ft worth hazmat team. I asked the question in reference to the the texas panhandle where there isnt a hazmat team in every county. He told me that I would only be at the operations level so the main thing that I could do was just to keep people away and set up the zones until help arrives. He also said off the books if its just some diesel on the ground after a wreck just spray it off and save the paper work. Dont know really what you are wanting or what level and resources you have to your disposal.
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"He also said off the books if its just some diesel on the ground after a wreck just spray it off and save the paper work."
What the heck, as long as we are joking around about blowing off fuel spill SOG's, it would be a lot more fun to just light it on fire and let it burn off... lol
and as long as you are looking at fuel spills and hazmat, I have to tell you that I was impressed with this demonstration put on by the Houston Fire Department, Texas ... you guys have always been the trendsetters and leader of the pack when it comes to hydrocarbons...
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In May 2009, RDR Technologies and JRT Environmental did a demo for the Houston Fire Dept at the Val Jahnke Fire Training Center. In this video, we extinguished a tanker holding 165 gallons diesel in about 40 seconds using just a few gallons of Cold Fire advanced wetting agent. Video ripped from http://www.jrtenvironmental.com
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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I was talking to our AC a few weeks ago. In this county, any spill less than 20 gal. is NOT considered a haz-mat situation. I asked this because the local waste managment company broke a fuel tank on one of their trucks and wasted the entire street. They were very quick to sand and sweep up, but there was an odor for some time.
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Permalink Reply by Rick on
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I disagree with Capt Busy, In the area where I work I think SOG's or standard operating guidlines are a much better option than a SOP or standard operating proceedure/policy. If you "box" in the HM OIC then mitigating an incident becomes more complex. If you provide guidelines and allow him/her to call an "audible" as needed for successful mitigation, without the fear of reprisal for not following a proceedure/ policy, things will flow more smoothly. Your State, local municipality,USCG (water), NFPA 472 and OSHA will provide the "rigid" do's and dont's for legal mitigation, any other decisions should be made by the competent OIC form your HMU. Just as in any other type of incident, fire, tech rescue, or haz mat, rigid SOP's are implemented by micro-managers or graduates from the NFA command and controll class and they are not realistic. ALL types of responses need to have some flexability, none are identicle and strict or rigid policies/ proceedures are Not For Practical Applications.
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I think we are both saying the same thing here...
"If you "box" in the HM OIC then mitigating an incident becomes more complex."
No argument here... procedures are more restrictive than guidelines for starters.
The guideline vs. procedures for calling something an audible... This is a local term that I think means to send additional equipment? There's a translation problem here that I don't fully understand. But in my world, if you think you need it then ask for it and use the concept of staging until you are ready to commit the resources. I don't need a strict policy to tell me when to ask for more equipment, I just need general guidelines to enable me the freedom to do my job.
As far as a hazardous materials incident, we use ICS. That's pretty damn rigid but if it ain't broke, then don't fix it... Plus we had a lot to do with the language and organization of Hazmat ICS considering that Firescope originated in Southern California.
"rigid SOP's are implemented by micro-managers or graduates from the NFA command and controll class and they are not realistic"
Again, no argument here. SOP's are wonderful for anal retentive officers who memorize every procedure, word-for-word. I hate those guys...
"strict or rigid policies/ proceedures are Not For Practical Applications"
We are brothers with different mothers. We both agree totally!
SOP's suck... bad... very restrictive... not fun to justify why you did not follow the departments SOP's, exactly... no variance... can you do this every time? for every incident?
Attend the USA Homeland Security Chemical Ordinance Biological and Radiological Responder training and you will learn that SOG's are a lot easier to defend in court. The example and component of training that stressed this was the use of the M256A1 Chemical Agent Detector Kit (The M256A1 Chemical Agent Detector Kit is a compact, simple-to-use kit designed to detect blister, nerve and blood agents.)
It's complicated to use and requires you to follow the procedures, "step-by-step", exactly, word-for-word. They stressed that the only way to follow procedures was to have someone read to you over the radio, and for you to confirm along the way that you understood the directions. Doing it this was the only way to ensure that opposing counsel won't fry you on the witness stand. And by the way, it sucks to be deposed and have to justify why you did what you did.
Note: If you have not taken advantage of this free training, do so. It's the most organized, well run course I have ever attended in my >30 year career. I put together some webpages years ago that you can check out here: COBRA
SOG's give OIC's more room to make decisions without fear of reprisal or having to memorize "how to do things" word for word. This also means that your SOP's might need to cover every type of incident. Again, SOG's are a lot easier to use for everyone involved.
TCSS,
CBz
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Capt
I agree were on the same page, the term audible to me lets me dieviate from SOG's based on research and experience for a successful mitigation, basically there are some guidelines that I have to follow but after that the response is "incident driven". In my Dept. if I deviate from proceedures it's a sin and punishable. If I deviate from guidelines and justify my actions I'm good. Just some props here as an OIC from a HMU in Wash. D.C. we use COBRA it's a great program if you can afford it, also if you visit Dougway Utah (great class) they will knock 10 minutes off of your Mk 256 kit test in black and white for legal purposes.
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Thanks for the input. I truly look forward to talking to you more in the future Rick.
TCSS,
CBz
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