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Drinking in the Fire House
Last week I went to lunch with some co-workers (non-FFs) and the discussion rolled around to my involvement with the FD. One of the guys said "well, you must have guys that just join the department for the drinking". This recalled to mind another comment by someone, some years back, who swore that ALL volunteer FFs drank at the station and "those who say they don't are lying".
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by chele on
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Our Chief told us last night that (and forgive me, I don't have details) it is now a law here (everywhere?) that if a firefighter is involved in an accident and it is proven that alcohol was a factor then not only would the life insurance not pay if he died, but the Chief and Officers could be sued. We are busy working on our S.O.P., etc to reflect this new law and take a zero tolerance stance on drinking.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Not to mention that you also would lose federal PSOBs as well. No Hometown Heroes; no nothing.
Public scorn and ridicule would, of course, increase. EVERYONE on the department would wear the label.
Hey, tb: just curious, but how do you get away with secretly video-taping someone else's property without their knowledge or permission?
If it so widely known and wide spread, why don't you have your cops do the taping?
Just curious.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Time to throw the BS flag.
Hey, tb: Is this your problem?
"The Law Center recently represented a man with epilepsy and the Epilepsy Foundation of Southeastern Pennsylvania in an action against the police department of Darby Borough and other emergency responders in Parks v. Darby Borough. The suit alleged that Mr. Parks was forcibly subdued when he called for assistance during a seizure. Unfortunately, a jury failed to find in this matter that there was any violation of Mr. Parks' civil rights under the American with Disabilities Act (ADA), the Rehabilitation Act or the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act. Because the evidence presented at trial, including the Borough's own testimony, established that it failed to conduct a self-evaluation for police officers who respond to 911 medical assistance calls from, or on behalf of persons with disabilities, the Law Center filed a motion asking the Court to either grant a new trial or injunctive relief to enjoin Darby Borough to ensure that all of the police officers it employs receive training in the recognition and proper management of seizure patients. This motion was denied in the fall of 2004. "
http://www.pilcop.org/dis_crim.mpl
How about this?
"i say forget soc security and lawsuits ,i have no time for ten more years of courtroom games,i need more time to look into educational bounderies,as of now i sit here with 48 credits to my name and family decreses rapidly.would you have time for games in a court after spending every two weeks in court with nothin but continuences for three years?i have no more time for it but i promise a statement will be made with each and every mistake they make.
i now await mistakes with my digital camera while i study for a degree at the same time.let them make another mistake and i promise,it will hit the news.
when i was beaten in the jailcell,their excuse was that the video cameras in the cell were out of order at the time!read between the lines.
i promise i will have a huge statement by 2010 as i have tons of paperwork on each mistake they made from 2000 to now.most would send it to the mayor,my reports goto harrisburg as well as washington.seems i found a few buddies within the system who agrees somethin should be done.they even gave me the camera free of charge and told me to send them everything.
LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD! "
http://www.topix.com/forum/health/epilepsy/TGCHLE06TICEFJURF
Seems like we have an axe to grind here. Well, that's OK; but this site is for Firefighters, EMS and Rescue personnel, not for the general public to come and belly-ache about things.
If you don't have anything constructive to add about the subject of alcohol and firefighting, or how to effect change in those firehouses that need reform, then please don't waste the server space with your drivel. There are other web sites and forums that would be far more sympathetic to it.
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Great; we have a tourist who knows how to Google and has an axe to grind.
tb: Many of us have been involved with changing this culture. We aren't hiding it; we are addressing it. You can do whatever you want wherever it is that you hang out.
But, you're wasting your time with all of the taking pictures, contacting the media crap. I don't care what you do, because you are not HERE. Just make sure when you are trying to stick it to the firefighters, it's the firefighters where you live. If you think that you are going to take on the entire fire service with your vendetta, good luck.
We have seen your type before.
Good luck.
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Permalink Reply by Scarecrow on
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There is a difference between having a couple of drinks and being drunk. Just like the difference between a couple of cups of coffee and 10 cups of coffee.
Rule 1. Just because someone has had a beer don't assume they are drunk or unable to perform.
Rule 2. All foreign substances in ones body have an effect on their abilities, treat all foreign substances the same.
Rule 3. Don't talk about what ifs with insurance companies and law suits. Both are all about money and have nothing to do with the real issue.
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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Once again Art, an insightful reply, I really enjoy having you in discussions, you bring a lot to the table. What you say is very true, and I think the underlying theme of the thread. We have kind of talked this topic to death, yet nobody has come forward with any real suggestions as to what if anything needs to be done. We all agree its a bad idea to respond under the influence, yet we must acknowledge that personnel in district as you outlined create the most critical level of self governance. Nobody wants to miss a big fire, but nobody wants to get their fellow responders killed either. That said, I live in a district like the one you just outlined, and we are not even allowed to wear our uniform shirts to the store if our shopping includes purchasing alcohol. It is likely there have been problems in the past, and the county has just said no. I drink my share of the cold stuff, but if I have my coctail hour, I don't have my response hour too.
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Joel:
And what you touch upon is a KEY component, especially in volunteer departments. The issue is one of self-control, self-discipline, regard for your other members and a self-policing, if you will.
If everyone could exercise the SAME level of common sense, drinking and responding would be a non-issue.
But, because common sense differs from person to person, it will always be the "wild card" when judging a candidate for membership. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything out there that tests for levels of common sense.
Which is why almost every facet of our lives have to be legislated. We all have to pay for the lack of others' ability to conform to "normal" behavior.
And that could very well explain the over crowding in our jails and the punching bag that the fire service has become every time a person in uniform does something to disgrace it.
Sad, but true.
Art
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TB- As one of those who held out suggestions as to how to make things better, I am qualified to tell you where I see your involvement going. It doesn't take a genius to see that you are not helping this discussion in any way, just bringing inflammatory talk to an already sensitive subject. I do not believe ou are a responder, or you would not feel the need to take video of people without their consent, a practice which could be seen as harrassment. If you look at the pages on this site, most folks are proud to show themselves and to fill out their profiles. You have none.
If you have something to prove, prove it and move on.
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Permalink Reply by Terry Kimmel on
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I can't believe anyone can tell me that they would stand side to side with a fellow fire fighter that has been drinking let alone going into a burning house trusting your life in there hands. Not even talking about the major legal ramifications from law suits from the ones we serve. The hole idea that drinking in a fire station is ok is totally crazy.
ZERO TOLERANCE
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I am going to close this thread for a couple of days. Let's regroup and think about how we as responsible people can address the issue of alcohol in the fire house.
To Ron “tb” Parks: Well ol’ buddy, you had better find a new sandbox to play in. You’ve worn out your welcome here. And as much as it PAINS me to close the only thread you’ve posted to on this web site, I guess I’ll have to work through it.
Buh-bye.
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I’m opening up this discussion again because I think it is important that the recent arrivals at FireFighter Nation know that alcohol in the fire service is still a problem today.
The vast majority of the posters to this discussion have said that a zero tolerance policy is in place at their department. This is great; however we all need to know that zero tolerance policy is not in effect at ALL departments at this time.
A few pages back xchief22 wrote:
“Based on all of the replies so far, it sounds like everyone has a handle on drinking at the station, drinking and responding, membership conduct rules, swift/severe punishments for transgressions and a clear headed vision of service provided.
Soooooo, why are we even discussing it like it's a problem in our fire service?
According to everyone here, it isn't.
OR are there some not willing to ADMIT it? Kinda like that whole seatbelt thing.”
Chief, I’m convinced that there are a lot who are unwilling to admit it.
The question has been raised, “What are we going to do about it?” Well, as a first measure, each of us can take the pledge to never, ever drink on duty, or show up to a scene under the influence. Many of us have inherently taken that pledge, because that’s the right thing to do, and that’s the way we do things. Others may have read this discussion and have decided to follow along. If we can get the rest of the 13,000 members of this forum to follow along, that will be a good first step.
Leading by example is about the only way I can see that the problem will ever go away. Today’s probies will be tomorrow’s leaders, and a lot of what we share and discuss on this site will influence what they do when they step up to a leadership role. Others who are now leaders will review these pages and ask themselves “how can I apply this to my station?” Thus, the seeds of change will have been planted.
But the problem will not go away overnight. As someone said, this is a battle that has to be won department by department, and I fear that in some cases the battle may take another generation to win. I hope not, but I think it’s realistic.
So let’s hear from the firefighters who have been holding out on us. Let’s try to analyze each situation to see if there are any constructive ideas that we can apply to that situation. Let’s hear from leaders at departments where drinking has been banned, and how the ban was implemented. Let’s not start bashing posters over the head like we did in the “Response Music” thread (but gosh that was a lot of fun) and see if we can get into some creative problem solving here.
Oh, and one more thing: We don’t need any more copy/pastes of articles from newspapers detailing public examples of FFs and EMS workers drinking on or off the job. That’s just preaching to the choir, and takes up valuable server space.
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Permalink Reply by FF Schoen on
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Stolz,
I promise that I am not going to turn this into another response music page...I apologize for thw way that one went. I believe that we need to be the examples for those that we take care of.
I asked myself How can I respond to someone in their deepest time of need when I am unable to perform and possible be a hazard. How can we respond to a DUI fatality crash and not think that it could have been one of us....... I am a firefighter/emt and I choose not to drink at all. Thats my personal choice and I am my department's designated driver if needed. Thats my take on this. I am not going to bash anyone for what they do or dont do.... Just please think before something happens to change your life forever.
God Bless and Make it Home Safe
"Never Forget"
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