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red line at car fires
I still see red lines at car fires i understood that red lines are a no-no . They do not have enough water to keep you safe . We pull a handline on all car fires . What do you use and why ??
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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WestPhilly-
If it's a requirement, why are your people ignoring it? Seems like an accident waiting to happen. Who will be responsible when someone gets hurt by ignoring a required procedure? Here at my F.D. we've got FF's and Officers walking around without asses because they ignored a required procedure and the Chief chewed their ass off! Just a thought...stay safe!
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Although your public admission of being a life-long Phillies fan might be a good thing? Philly has to cut you SOME slack for that...
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Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
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A triple lay line can be deployed just as fast as a red line . We have timed that because of a conversation just like this .
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Stop arguing about which hose.
Just like Billy Martin; just like Lou Piniella...
KICK SOME DIRT ON IT!
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Frank Svitak on
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While widely frowned apon, I have seen car fires put out with less than 100 gallons of water with a booster line, while others are hit with 1.5 or 1.75 hand lines using way over 600 gallons and even over 1000 on a pick up truck. What I really think is missing in the whole controversy is the proper fire stream. We have to remember that vehicle fires are a compartment fire. Hit that fire with about 50 gallons of water using the proper stream & you have now created well over 2000 gallons of steam, which in a compartment will extinguish the fire. Many times the improper use of larger hand lines throws the thermal balance so far out of wack that you need too much water to put out the fire. Let the thermal balance work for you and create the steam. You will use less water and be back in alot less time. I have personaly used a booster line on a car that was totaly involved. I adjusted the booster nozzle to a broken stream with about a 30 degree pattern, aproached the car, turned on the nozzle. Just as you would with a room and contents fire, I gave the nozzle about 3 rotations, shut down and backed off. The water had hit the hot metal, created alot of steam, and put the fire out. All that was left was overhaul. I used so much water, that the tank gauge still read full. I could have done this with a larger line, but I would have wasted so much water. Again, I personaly feel that it really is not the size line you use on vehicle fires, as much as using the proper fire stream & techniques to attack the fire. Of course, the larger the vehicle, the larger the line you have to use, but any line can be effective on a standard size car if used properly.
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Way to go guys we are still family and thats the way it should be.
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Permalink Reply by Rescue Engine 2923 on
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Simple.
1 3/4 bumper line, 'nuff said.
Man up and pack hose, booster reels are a thing of the 70s.Sure they are good for spot fires
But I'll never pull a booster on a working car fire. Dumpster fire, IF it's a small one, possibly but if she's rolling 1 3/4 bumper line.
Train hard, go back over, then train and retrain!
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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How's this for a tactics twist... Yes, the use of a SCBA is imperative for the firefighter going in to attack the fire, which may or may not require a 1.5-inch line that we carry on the passenger side of our rigs (out of traffic) and pre-plumbed as an attack line. We call it the Freeway Line. While the firefighter is donning his or or SCBA, the Captain can pull and flake red line (uphill, upwind, etc.) enabling the firefighter to grab the nozzle and attack the fire, in the smoke... but only if absolutely necessary. If there seems to be a lot of smoke to contend with, I think it's wise to consider pulling out your blower and pushing the smoke away from the vehicle so the firefighter can see what they are doing. To be honest, we have pre-plumbed foam that can be dialed into a pretty frothy discharge. Unless it's a raging vehicle threatening brush against the side of the road, I tend to prefer the redline because it's quick and easy to use and more importantly put away. The less time I spend on the highway, the better I'll feel. It's a subjective call, dependent upon potential, size and type of vehicle (corvettes for example become huge tiki torches and VW's have magnesium blocks (at least they do in the older models... what a surprise when you hit this with H20...).
Working together as a team when you are on an engine company is number one here. Keeping yourself safe, and using appropriate PPE is next, staying out of the smoke as much as possible. Dermal exposure when physically "in the smoke" is probably not a great idea with absorption through the skin being one of the ways toxins can enter your body. So, consider using a blower in conjunction with whatever handline you choose to put the wet stuff on the red stuff... : )
Mike
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I missed this thread somehow, thanks for waking it up Mike. When I saw the title, I thought, what's wrong with using red hose? After all, we have red hose in 20mm 38mm and 64mm diametres - plenty of choice. Then I read further. And confusion endeth. Our high pressure reel has black hose. That line is the fastest line to deploy that we have, after all, you can charge it as soon as the crew start moving, it isn't going to tie itself in knots like lay-flat will. The HP gets used for everything, cars, bins, houses. Please don't tell me that reels won't put out house fires, I'd have to tell you to look at London Fire Brigade photos to see that it really does work. As was stated earlier - it's not how big it is, but how you use it that matters. (Hmm - I've seen that saying used elsewhere too)
If your SOP's state that you must use something else, then do so. If your own experience tells you to use something else, then do so. If you simply hate the idea of a reel being used, then don't use one! But please don't say they don't work, there are literally thousands of fires all over the world that are attacked and beaten using reels.
Our HP reel has 75 metres of 20mm ID hose with an Akron on the end of it. We usually run it at around 2500-3000 kPa. Use an online converter if you don't understand metric and want to know what that is in imperial measurement. Today I'm feeling lazy.
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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I miss booster reels. We used to have a quick response vehicle and it was wonderful on car fires. It had a foam system as well and a high pressure nozzle. That booster reel was a life saver on many occassions.
I don't agree with them being a thing of the 70s. We used ours on our 1985 FMC Roughneck AND on our 1987 quick response. The problem with that truck was that it was overloaded to the 9s & it was too hard on the engine & chasis. (hindsight is 20-20) But the booster reel was a good idea.
Booster reels have their place but you have to KNOW when to use them and when to leave them on the truck. Taking them off the truck first and hitting a fire hard and fast with it while an engine is setting up works too. There are a lot of things you can do with a booster reel and they do work very well when used properly. It is the same effect of using a 1 1/2 when you need a deluge gun. Both have their place. The guy using them has to have a clue of what he is doing or someone will get hurt. Same as just about anything else in this business.
We use hand lines on car fires.
I agree with SCBA being an issue. Where there is smoke, there are carcinogens. We eat too much smoke in small doses still.
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Thanks Jenny, you made me realise I'd forgotten something. We can put Class B foam through our HP reel.
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Permalink Reply by Will2745 on
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Have any of you ever heard of the John Bean Fire Co? they produced a engine with hi pressure handlines and low pressure pump
the hi pressure operated at about 800 lps pressure thru a 1/4 inch nozzle opening,,,This was used for years, for fighting house fires, car fires, wildland fires,etc,,,the so called booster lines were great for initial attack until the 1 and 1/2 lines could be set up. ( we didnt have 13/4 line in those days)Those hi pressure lines could tear the shingles off a house,or rip a gash in your leg big enough to require surgery to repair....Ahhhh, memories
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