Rural FD Tankers

For all of you members of rural FDs, chances are you still have home-built tankers on the road as we do. Check out this article on Firefighterclosecalls.com:
http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstory.php?54934
I think over the course of time we have made all of these mistakes. We so far haven't had any major mishaps although we did have one really close call last summer. Because of that, our next tanker will be custom designed.

Anyone else still use milk tanks set on standard truck chassis?

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Permalink Reply by Robert B Pierce on November 21, 2007 at 7:13pm
Until this year my Volunteer Department had always run home made tankers. They were usually old fuel oil trucks that had been converted to haul water. They served us well for many years, and there are still alot of Departments still running them in our County. We we lucky enough to receive an AFG this year to replace our 1985 Ford tanker. When we wrote the Grant we cited accidents involving home made tankers and the age factor, millage etc. Hopefully we will never have to go back to those days.
Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on November 21, 2007 at 10:36pm
During our EVOC class we learned that a majority of trucks that are converted to tankers, the departments remove the baffles to allow water flow from either compartments, and furthermore they are way over the weight limits for the truck. Water weighs more than fuel and thats a classic error. Maintainance is a major issue also with most rural departments, with trucks only getting older with older parts and tires contributing to a large quantity of Tanker accidents. (look at some NIOSH reports, it's stunning) If you get lucky to get a good one, make sure it gets thoroughly inspected to make sure its road worthy not only for your benefit, but for the benefit of each and every member of the community on the road with you. If you cause an accident because the vehical wasn't right, the department will suffer the consequences for years to come.
Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on November 23, 2007 at 1:46pm
What's spooky was that we did have our truck maintained over the summer - new springs, new tires, and a tank leak repair. A week later the truck was en route to a barn fire and the NEW right rear spring shackle broke sending the truck fishtailing. Several hundred feet and 180 degrees later the truck stopped, thankfully without rolling. It needed new springs AGAIN and new tires, and we also re-geared it to lower the top speed.

We are considering a tractor-trailer type of rig next time around, but the drawback to that is the small number of people who would be able to drive it.
Permalink Reply by Justin Stepien on November 27, 2007 at 10:59pm
Yeah we still have One left and Will for at least 5 more years.... We only have like 5 guys who will drive this rig though..... Its Slow, Heavy, Cumbersome..... Its gets were its going, just not very fast!
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Permalink Reply by Crockett on November 30, 2007 at 11:00pm
Not having any hydrants in our district, we rely heavily on our 9400-gal. (18-wheel) tanker for any extended fire.
Oddly, under FL statutes, ANYBODY can drive the tanker TO an emergency scene (lights & sirens), but one must posess a valid CDL to return to the station w/o lights & sirens. Go figure :S
We (AFD Firefighters) are currently studying for our CDLs, as the chief and two of our vols are the only ones 'allowed' to drive it.
We did, however, just purchase a new (2002) Freightliner truck that was in excellent condition, as it used to haul a super-sized load mobile MRI unit around. Unfortunately, our budget won't allow us to replace our 1965...yes,1965...Ruan fuel tanker until mid-2008. With regular maintenence and some extra TLC, it has served us well. We are also going to upgrade to a PTO pump on the new trailer which will make things a lot easier.
Permalink Reply by Arthur T. Kline on December 2, 2007 at 4:13pm
Until one year ago we used a ex-fuel truck on a 1976 Chevy C60, gas engine, hydrolic brakes, 2000 gal. tank with no baffels for a tanker. Ran good, little slow, but turning corners or going down hills was an adventure! It was taken out of service when it was no longer inspectable. Which was a very good decision! We just placed into service a E-One Tradition 1800 gal Tanker with 500 GPM pump into service. It is a Frieghtliner M2 chassis with 330 Cummins, Auto Trans, Air brakes, back up camera and 3 side dump.
We have come a long way since I came on board. Homemade tanker and homemade brush truck, 1958 2nd due Engine, overloaded 1st due engine, and beat ex-amb for a rescue.

We have learned our lesson on the whole self service maintenance issue too. Everything goes out to the local heavy truck dealer for maintenance! We cover our butts. Nothing is done half___ anymore! Too much is at stake! Lives depend on our trucks! Not just the lives of our customers, but ours too. This is probably the most critical thing the fire service faces. Stop the apparatus deaths that take our brothers and sisters away from us.
Permalink Reply by Glen "Darren" Borror on December 16, 2007 at 3:27pm
One of the departments I ran on still has in service a 1979 International single axle that was originally used at an oil rigging company, it was donated to the department when the department crashed a tanker and a brush truck (before my time). I had a near miss incident with it one day when I was going down hill towards a stop sign. The brakes failed and I went straight through the intersection (that I wanted to turn left at) at about 25 mph. Fortunately, everyone saw me coming and had stopped to let me through (my community pretty good at that). Upon inspection at a shop, it was discovered that the brake drum had failed/cracked. That was the cause of the truck not being able to stop. The truck had 2200 gal. of water aboard. Too much weight for that truck. Later that year, a new tank was purchased at 1800 gal. capacity. That has seemed to help with the weight issue. Out side of that incident, no other problems have ever been noticed in the quality of the truck. Only other misshaps were driver error only. The best thing I could tell a department trying to save money, use care in picking an excellent chasis that will sustain the load you are about to impose on it, (think about it, how much weight is being pushed when you are breaking hard responding to a call when that water shifts!!). How much money do you save if you kill somebody with a piece of apparatus not designed for the purpose you are trying to use it for?
Permalink Reply by matt on December 16, 2007 at 10:29pm
we used to but a few yrs ago we got a fema grant to get a new tanker so now we have a nice 2005 peterbuilt tanker 4000 gallons onboard....
Permalink Reply by James on December 18, 2007 at 8:10am
The county that i live has had home made tankers as long as can remember. From old milk trucks to fuel oil tankers. I thank the last one in the county gone now it belonged a vol. company that i help out and grow up in it was a beast with very few that could drive it. It was an old 1978 MACK with an 2300 gal. tank you miss a gear you had to stop and start all over. But it was in acc. running cold per the s.o.g.'s a few years back doing water shuttles to woods fire and got run off the road by logging truck the driver did a good job getting back on the road but while getting it back under control it hit a van headon killing the driver he a paster at local church it hit home for alot of people ai the fire dept. and the comm. the family did not want any charges brought up to the driver or the fire co. it was rebuilt new paint and newer lights and was in service till earlier this year when it was sold to a another fire co. outside our county when one came in. We all need to safe while driving a homemade or a custom truck. Be safe out there!
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Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on December 28, 2007 at 1:27am
IF I may say... although I am a Career guy in a city department, I've done tanker shuttles with a 750 gallon tank rig back in the days before we had porta ponds... I've also driven 1850 up to 8,000 gallon tanks including single axle with 3200 tags and two axle fixed and 3 axle 2 fixed and a tag as well as tractor trailers..(oil) the biggest thing, I will say is that in many areas we dont have the drivers with experiance as we did years ago.
I learned how to drive a standard on a C 60 Chevy dumptruck with a 4 and 2 speed rearend thrugh a flatbed on it and got my class one Lic at age 18... My qualifying engine was a 1976 Maxin with a 671 detroit and 5 speed spicer Transmission.. you had to Know how to drive it ... I was lucky enough to have had the experiance to be able to wheel 3 Mack DM's one with a twinstick 5x2 , 5x3 and 5x4 as well as wheeling an ALF pump with No power steering 5 speed squaretooth and detroit powered again You had to know how to drive it.. today our "pumps' " have 500 HP and push button trannies which are a hellava lot scarier then Most of the tankers I am hearing described in here. .... I read one entry about a ford L-9000 which was slow and only a half dozen members would drive it.... Thats Great, because a truck with 2500 Gallons has no need tobe doing over 40 mph anyway .... Making it easy to get over 45 -55 is hell unsafe, Until you start some extensive Training on how to handle them... GETTING TO the incident in one piece ismoreimportant then pushing the envelope, killing the members riding or innocents enroute to something that is simple put someone elses Screwup is just freaking stupid ... If You choose tolive 30miles from the firehouse then expect rubble if you screw up.. period I know we all want to do better butNo one's life is worth THATand for those reasons ....:)
Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on December 28, 2007 at 7:43am
Jim, you are right on with the training aspect. Regardless of homebuilt or custom built tankers, one needs to drive on a regular basis to stay familiar with the handling characteristics of each truck.

I've been guilty of driving a pumper like it was my POV, back in my younger years. This was the only auomatic tranny-equipped truck we had at the time and it drove like a car... well almost. So I can understand how easy it is to get carried away behind the wheel, especially when the adrenaline is flowing. Training, training and more training is what's needed.

Funny you should mention a 750 gallon "tanker" - "back in the day" we did tanker shuttles with 750s and 1000s routinely. We pumped into a 2 1/2" line hooked to a clappered Siamese, which was hooked to a nurse pumper. It was a delicate balancing act between the tank/pump, tank fill and inlet levers to keep water flowing smoothly and not pissing off the guys on the nozzle.
Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on December 28, 2007 at 7:08pm
THat was mY only Point Joe, as far as 750 tank shuttles ,you were trained and even if youhappened to be solo, You worked or learned quickly how to work efficiantly... I once was tasked /Volunteered to set up our spanking new Hahn (1983) as If it was an off the cuff set up of course , responded Alone to the particular Pond, spotted , then connected 3 REal hard sleeves and strainer attached them (again by myself) after cutting a hole in the ice of course, then set up 4 sets of 2 2 1/2 lines spaced so that I could accept 4 "rigs" to be filled or be in various stages of hooking up, unhooking and moving the line up without interupting the Tanker shuttle at the other end.. It was hell, and it then was frantic, and once the operation got going we had about 13 or 14 rigs the largest was one of 2 local 2500's the rest were 500-1500... I dont recall the "time" since the frantic focus went from doing it to really doing it... But It was like 13 minutes stopped when the 3rd rig hooked up... in those days we did stuff like that because I wanted to see IF I could actually do it alone.. since I often was alone when i responded... Happy to say that oncethe 2 deck guns and one ladder pipe began they never lost water ..I cant recall , what they figured we flowed total..... Like I said I was focused on other stuff... :)

Another point about the "girly feel" of the apparatus these days iswghen You climbed behind the wheel, which was typical to your ALF's Seagraves, Macks, Maxims etc.. They Felt Like you were Driving a truck.. today They have about the same feel as one of those Playschool U drive toys like Maggie Simpson steers with Marge in the opening to the show.., add that to auto tranny and the loss for that "BIG azzed truck feeling" along with huge power plants as stated many are over 500 hp now .. I My self am heavy footed and frankly You havent been for a ride with me unless I'vemade you scream like a girl, or at least squeeked like a mouse once... lol ... Training Training training yes, and beyond that Some parking lot slippery conditions training with professional drivers wouldn't be a bad idea either....if the speed limit says 20 you should be doing 12 to 17, 30 = 20-25 , average mind you 45 , doing 40 is pushing it on most roads in rural areas, what if , anticipate , expect...I personally have developed a 6th sense often ccoming into a turn area or intersection, I visualize "something" Like a pickup halfway in my lane for instance and more times then NOT, up the bend it happens.. ON the Highway, I will be driving along and about 89% of the time , I'll tell youthe car in the middle is gonna cut off a guy coming up on the far left.. and it happens, enough To know I would trust my instincts... IF your Not Familiar with a road, driving it like your Jackie Stewart isnt going to get you to the scene...anyone ever experiance Brake fade? No a pleasant feeling going through a intersection, or stopped traffic just at the bottom of an off ramp... we IN my state have had Big problems in one particular state road where guys in trucks (Pros') have killed dozens coming down "Avon Mountain" which is barely a hill by mountain standards in most areas... why? because drivers are not paying attention, lack knowledge and skills, Your NOT driving a SUV, Your driving that tanka ( I feel like Mel Gibson) gear down , Use the engine brake and or tranny manually downshift the tranny to the same gear range going down as you would use Going up, and you will survive ... :) Maybe

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