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Permalink Reply by Wes Anders on August 24, 2008 at 11:10pm

Thank you for your help i will look into 1403 and may be giving you a shout if this pans out.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on August 25, 2008 at 6:59am

This is exactly what we do, with the addition that we start a documentation file that includes a NFPA 1403 checklist for the final burn day. 1403 is required reading for those contemplating acquiring structures for training.

Acquired structures are also great for practicing wall breeching and 1st/2nd floor bail-out techniques. While we can practice these at the burn building, at the end of the day it's still the burn building.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on August 26, 2008 at 9:52pm

As many have been posting read, comprehend and follow NFPA 1403 to the letter. Ensure you have competent personnel operating and running the operations.
Take a look at the NIOSH Report; F2001-38 Sep 25, 2001 Volunteer fire fighter dies and two others are injured during live-burn training - New York
SUMMARY
On September 25, 2001, a 19-year-old male volunteer fire fighter (the victim) died and two male volunteer fire fighters (Fire Fighter #1 and Fire Fighter #2) were injured during a multi-agency, live-burn training session. The victim and Fire Fighter #1 were playing the role of fire fighters who had become trapped on the second-level of the structure. The training became reality when the fire was started and progressed up the stairwell, accelerated by a foam mattress that was ignited on the first floor. Fire Fighter #1 and the victim were recovered from the second-level front bedroom where they had been placed for the training. Fire Fighter #2 jumped from a second-level window in the rear bedroom. The victim was unresponsive when removed from the structure. Advanced life saving procedures were initiated on the victim en route to the local hospital where he was pronounced dead. Fire Fighter #1 and Fire Fighter #2 suffered severe burns and were airlifted to an area burn unit.

NIOSH investigators concluded that to minimize the risk of similar occurrences, fire departments should ensure that no one plays the role of victim inside the structure during live-burn training
ensure that a certified instructor is in charge of the live-burn training and that a separate safety officer is appointed and has the authority to intervene and control any aspect of the operation
ensure that only one training fire is lit at a time by a designated ignition officer and that a charged hoseline is present while igniting the fire
ensure that Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) are developed and followed
ensure that all fire fighters participating in live-burn training have achieved a minimum level of basic training
ensure that before conducting live-burn training, a preburn briefing session is conducted and an evacuation plan and signal are established for all participants
ensure that fires used for live-burn training are not located in any designated exit paths
ensure that the fuels used in the live-burn training evolutions have known burning characteristics and the structure is inspected for possible environmental hazards
Additionally,
States should develop a permitting procedure for live-burn training to be conducted at acquired structures. States should ensure that all the requirements of NFPA 1403 have been met before issuing the permit.
Also look at NIOSH Report #F2003-28 Aug 08, 2003 Live-fire training exercise claims the life of one recruit fire fighter and injures four others - Florida
Live-Fire Training Exercise Claims the Life of One Recruit Fire Fighter and Injures Four Others– Florida
SUMMARY
On August 8, 2003, a 37-year-old male recruit fire fighter (hereafter known as the Recruit) died and four others suffered skin burns and heat exhaustion while participating in their first live-fire training exercise. The training took place in a simulated marine vessel. After completing most of the evolution, the Recruit became separated from his squad as they were returning to the entrance/exit door. All recruits and instructors had exited the structure when the training staff realized a recruit was missing. The structure was "opened up" and the Recruit was found unconscious in cardiopulmonary arrest. Despite cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) and advanced life support (ALS) at the scene, in the ambulance, and in the emergency department of the local hospital, the Recruit died. An autopsy conducted by the County Office of the Medical Examiner concluded the cause of death to be "cardiac arrhythmia" due to "exposure to heat" with "AV node artery stenosis and mild myocarditis" as contributory causes. Find

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Permalink Reply by FETC on August 27, 2008 at 2:52pm

Chris,

That NIOSH report is a good example of a non-NFPA 1403 burn. NFPA 1403 does list out the need for a qualified officer-in-charge, number of instructors, qualifications, student qualifications, fuels, victims, egress, etc. I like that you provide ways to think and learn when you post here. Very positive education...

What most fire chief's fail to realize is that under a 1403 training fire, their personnel might not meet the qualifications to cover key positions during the controlled "training fire". This is usually a red flag identifying the need to further educate our officer staff for preparation to real-world incidents.

I find it amazing as a progressive fire service instructor, that a document like 1403 exisits for protection of our brothers/sisters and people still claim they didn't know it existed, felt the document was too difficult to meet or just plain ignored the document to begin with.

Many of us in the business, meet/exceed the standard. I for one, take the pre-fire or pre-evolution building familiarization walk through to the next level. After determining the fire room, and showing people the primary and secondary egress path for emergency exiting, I have always painted the exit path(s) with a continuous line of latex paint with chevrons every 4 feet, depicting a hose line marking the exit routes just in case someone was disoriented. That should never occur anyway, if you follow the span-of-control instructor/student ratio for direct "qualified" supervision/instruction, etc.

My suggestion to anyone doing a burn, is get to know the document... because it is what you will be held to when sitting on the other side of the gavel...

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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on August 27, 2008 at 3:17pm

All of our training burns are conducted in donated structures, and in accordance with NFPA 1403. Safety is paramount, we don't ever want to lose someone during a training exercise!

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Permalink Reply by Bill Brierton on August 27, 2008 at 3:30pm

We use to do them but not after the incident that occured in Baltimore City. The PGFD fire chief put a stop to that. I can see both sides of the issue but if we don't do this type of training how are we going to react when it is a real house? I say this because I know a lot of stations and fire fighters that don't get to see alot of fire.

The other side is that this type of training is dangerous but so is being a fire fighter, career, paid on call or volunteer.

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