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Permalink Reply by NOVAFireman on June 2, 2011 at 4:30pm

"Do the police really understand how to give a fire report and should there be some cross training to help them understand that alot of smoke doesn't always mean alot of fire?"

No, they don't. And no, I don't believe there should be cross training.

"What do you consider "fully involved"?"

This is fully involved in my book.

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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on June 2, 2011 at 6:13pm

No and no.

Just like we shouldn't be trained to assess or report on their jobs...

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Permalink Reply by Moose on June 2, 2011 at 7:52pm

Should we be cross trained to make arrests and shoot people?

Fully involved is a no brainer, so for all of you out there that are our law enforcement brothers and sisters...Fully Involved means when every part of the house is consumed by fire.
If it is just one or two rooms with fire, it is a Working Fire.
If it is in the room of origin still and has not involved the structural members it is a "Room and contents" fire.
You cant be mad at them though, they have good intentions and just want to relay some information to us so we know what we are getting into. Just like if we saw a robbery and tried to relay what we thought was pertinent info to the sherrif dispatcher, would they be mad at us? Probably. What needs to happen is we all just need to chill out and know that we are all just merely trying to help each other.

If there is PD on my scene yelling "Fully Involved" I just merely think that we are rolling to atleast a working fire because they at least SEE flames, and read nothing else into it.
Stay Safe gang.

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Permalink Reply by joemac on June 2, 2011 at 8:59pm

^ This

Maybe they're really saying, "Philly fire" and it sounds different over the radio.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on June 2, 2011 at 11:53pm

What the police report should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't care if they report "fully involved" and we get on scene and find a room and contents, I DO know from their reports that we do have something going on. If they say there is smoke, fine, if they see flames, fine, give that info in whatever words they feel they want to relay, and then get out of our way and let us do our job.

I would rather have a police officer say "fully involved" and be wrong than to rush into a structure for a "search" and become a victim.

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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on June 3, 2011 at 1:01am

Good points John

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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on June 3, 2011 at 9:35am

We get reports all the time of fully involved or heavy smoke to find very little fire or none and light smoke.

So, do they understand? No

Would some cross training be helpful? Sure

Would it work? Probably not, can't even get them to keep their cars out of the way most of the time.

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on June 3, 2011 at 10:12am

LEO's are well trained to do their job, why would we expect them to know ours? These type of discussions always seem to center around how incompetent cops are (and just how great and god-like firefighters are).

Is it really them, or are some people just looking for an excuse to trash LEO's? If it's such an issue, offer to educate them, it's not that hard to make a size up based on what is showing. Maybe reach out to train them rather then reaching out to bitch slap them. Just a thought...

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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on June 3, 2011 at 10:14am

Well put Jack.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Gregory on June 3, 2011 at 11:28am

I don't pay much attention to their fire estimate, but there is other information they can give that's VERY useful. In our area it's pretty common for homes to have propane tanks for cooking and heating.

It's very nice for us to be pulling up and the Sheriff's deputies are reporting the back door was left wide open and there is (or is not) a large propane tank right against the structure in the rear.

We'll still do our own 360, but it's nice to get a heads up on any specific hazards or concerns they might find before we get there so we can immediately start to address those.

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Permalink Reply by Oldman on June 3, 2011 at 11:30am

Should we be cross trained to make arrests and shoot people?

Hmmmm, shooting? If done correctly, there isn't a need to arrest. Maybe you are on to something Brian.

Every call we run is exactly what is dispatched, right? But we don't blame the dispatchers, (well not all of them anyway). Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see. If it's fully involved when we arrive, so be it. Thank you officer for your report. If it's just a R & C fire, I will see that when I arrive and do a size up. Again, thank you officer for looking out for the safety and well being of me and my crew.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on June 3, 2011 at 12:23pm

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, Jack. I wouldn't think it too much for them to know the difference between fully involved and a fire. Light vs heavy smoke. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not bashing, either, just stating facts. We came close to blocking in 4 patrol cars on a dead end drive one time because they believe they need to be right up front. I've had to move patrol cars because they've blocked access for the truck. I almost wiped one out because he parked where I needed to for a car fire on a limited access highway.

We've talked, joked, I've mentioned it to their sergeants and several of the local deputies are or have been on fire departments and have relayed it, they just don't get it. I know my chief has talked to them about it as well.

They think they need to be closest to a scene and in charge--their training--and at a fire we know we do.

So if it came off as a slam, I did not mean it that way.

BTW, I'm happily married, so I am well aware that I not great or god-like. lol

PS One of the deputies that was a fireman gave an on-scene report of fully involved once and we were still disappointed.

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