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High Heart Rate = Poor Decision-making!
I recently read a book (I know; ice water is being passed out in Hell as we speak).
It was very enlightening.
It suggests that the higher the heart rate goes, the more likely is that we lose good decision-making ability.
That is to say; if you get excited at a fire and your heart rate goes up to say, 175; you are going to make poor decisions due to your excited state.
However; if you remain calm with a rate of around 120 or less, you are more apt to make good decisions. Your "cool under fire" comes from training, knowledge, experience and maturity.
Therefore; younger ones will be more excitable and older, more experienced jakes will be less excitable.
Would you agree?
TCSS.
Art
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Not sure if I buy in, dependant upon the task assignment, it could be labor intensive, or when getting the report just before entry that a child is trapped upstairs... the fact is our HR will be alot higher. And that while mentally we can focus and remain mentally calm, but metabolically we are not. For I feel has little to no effect on my thought process.
Studies have stated that IRL indy car drivers, wearing halter HR/EKG monitors under their suits have seen a max HR near 200; and they are driving cars 200+ mph. Tactical decision making in that environment are not done in seconds but milliseconds and the majority of them are done correctly regardless of HR.
I personally would like to see a halter monitor study done on a sleeping firefighter after being awoken to the multiple calls for a reported building fire with kids trapped, and see the results.
Can you say Industrial Athelete!
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Permalink Reply by Brad MacMillan on
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I agree that cooler heads will prevail and that your "cool under fire" comes from the training, knowledge, experience and maturity, but I don't completely agree with the older, more experienced "jakes" will be less excitable.
We have two guys on our department in their 40's who have been on the department since we first started 21 years ago. Of those two guys, one went on to join a full-time department (we are a volunteer department) and has since calmed down and become less excitable, but the other still gets very excited when the tones go off and I see it when I arrive at the hall. He's in the stall next to me, and when I first started I used to get excited with him, but now with more experience and many calls with a forestry department I was with for 4 seasons, I now know to slow things down, take a breath. Almost every time I arrive at the hall with him there, I have to turn to him and say, "*such and such*, just take a breathe, and calm down" he does, and then we respond to the call. But when I'm not on the call, I've heard other firefighters say things like he doesn't think when he arrives on scene, he just gets excited and runs into the action wanting to be in there. This is one of our most senior members doing this.
Although i agree with most of this statement, I also disagree somewhat with the last part of it. It depends on the person going into it.
FETC, under the circumstances, that would include the knowledge and experience. Those drivers, and us firefighters ALL have heightened HR's but while leaving the station or for them, going through the course, it's all second-nature and the decisions made are made long before, not just at the turn. That's the action that's made in milliseconds. This is where the experience comes in. While enroute to the call, this is where we start the thought process which gets better and better with experience. Going through this thought process, I have no doubt that we slowly start slowing our HR down. But, that's not all of us mind you. Some still get more and more excited.
We all step it up a notch when we hear something like that report, but that is why we're firefighters, we're the ultimate clutch players. We react well under pressure, and even better as we gain experience.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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I'm with FETC on this, increase in heart rate is a function of (typically) outside stimuli, which causes adrenaline to be released. It's hard to control such autonomous responses. While for some a flood of adrenaline and concomitant increase in heart rate may make decision making iffy, on the other hand that same adrenaline rush can allow someone to experience what appears to be a slowing down of time and observation of greater detail. This may actually be beneficial, allowing that person to take in more detail, observe more closely and mentally run through more options before committing to a decision. So while over all constant adrenaline rushes may take its toll on the body, the fight or flight response actually allows us to see a much bigger picture. Not necessarily a bad thing on the fire ground.
See this link - http://www.snotr.com/video/1004 for an interesting study on this phenomenon.
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Permalink Reply by David Todd Lord on
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This is something we have discussed at our fire department since we are volunteer most of us get dressed on scene because we drive our povs, now my dad which is our chief is a firm believer in the use of gear bags because he says by taking the time to get all your gear out it slows you down a lil bit and calms you down
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Permalink Reply by Rod Irvine on
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this sounds alot like head off cabbage on , and it can affect anyone and everyone that is on the fire ground ,
Im the youngest on my crew by 5 years (30) and have 14 years service between paid and volly service and i still get excited goin to certain calls but I also know that you have to take a few deep breaths and focus even when your heart rate is exploding ,
i have a rookie that is 48 that is under my wing who even though he has been and seen the world and had a career before joining the job is the most excitable guy that i have ever seen at a job so i dont think that age plays a part in it . I think that it is the person and how they are able to cope with the stress of the situation and control themselves . even my dad who is the chief of a small volly department and has been for close to 20 years loses it sometimes and needs to be told wooooooooo.
to FETC i would love to see the results of that HR monitor on the fireman that wakes up for that call to cos i bet it would be off the scale .
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interesting take on this Jack. Good points to think about.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Can we control the release of adrenaline or once released, control its effects?
I believe so.
As we are exposed to the activated tones of our pagers, then wouldn't our reaction to the tones be more controlled the more we are exposed?
Much like the marathon runner, the more they run, the more they are able to control their heart rate and tempo of the race.
No?
Firefighters; does their response become more controlled the more knowledge, skill and experience they receive; thereby, reducing the amount of adrenaline that is released and if the situation calls for it, increase the adrenaline to meet the demand for the task?
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Jack;
Interesting video. An eye opener for sure.
As a sidebar, I found the selection in music humorous.
I would wonder why human subjects weren't used as well.
In college, I had a psychology professor study students' sleep habits; particularly, rapid eye movement, dreaming and the heart rates. That was in the 70s.
He discovered that brain waves would go bonkers and heart rates sky if the subject was dreaming something very unpleasant. While they slept.
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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I understand the idea of this, but it doesn't work that way for everyone. We have gear bags as well, and I've seen people damn near rip the zipper off trying to get their gear out as fast as possible.
Even seen one fella put his nomex on backwards. No, the calming down process needs to be started before you even begin to respond. No need to be all jacked up behind the wheel; accidents happen that way.
I believe through training and practice, adrenaline can be controlled. Just like many other things, once you get comfortable with it, it's not that big of a deal.
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Art,
Were we looking at the same video? The link I posted uses a (human) volunteer who is dropped (I think) 12 stories into a double net.
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iv seen a few huys try to pull up their pants with the suspenders till in between their pants and they didnt do that again
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Jack;
Same video.
I was referring to the rat portion of the video.
Reverse the experiment and the rats would have fallen through the webbing in the catch net.
Of course; they would have had to increase the size of the cages for the humans.
I'm not making any sense.
I will bring my heart rate down.
Jeez; I'm hi-jacking my own thread.
By the way; the book that I refer to was "Blink".
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