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Mutial Aid for volunteer companies
I come from a small town in wv. There is ten dept. in the county but one stands out among the rest. This dept refuses to use mutal aid with its neighboring company. The reason the chief won't use mutial aid is because he don't like members under 18 and my dept. has more acctive members. So your thoughts would be appriciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Justin Russell on
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we have the same problems so to ride on a mutual aid call u must be pack qualified and over 18 and i believe that under 18's should be use under control of the officer or leave the kid with the pump operator u have to learn sometime other wise u would have no one in the fire service most firefighters start before high school and then some go to collage for it like me so it is not a bad thing thst kids are used i think most guys are jealous of the younger boys
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Permalink Reply by jerry craig on
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on our dept we dont have jr fireman no ones on till they are 18 not allowed in trucks to ride till 21 no driving the trucks till your 23 i agree with the chief under 18 to young to squirrilly gonna get someone hurt no offence to young guys but most dont think they just leap in
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Permalink Reply by kara-lee allen on
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we have jr's. deal is one jr to 3 FF's and no jr's in the hot zone (too dangerous, laws) and no MVC (too gory often times) we use them for BA bottle replacement, as gophers, tool crib set up, etc. but they have to be beside a trained member at all times and no more than 3 jr's per incident. we use mutual aid often, particularly when close to "borders". we MA our own county whenever possible (and this is often), generally speaking more bodies the better. However i have seen some dept's not call for MA because they dont "like" the other dept's which is totally off the wall to me! But to the above question CHIEF DECISION IS HIS/HERS! AND NOT TO BE QUESTIONED UNLESS IT IS A MATTER OF SAFETY. too many under 18 FF isnt going to be much help anyway. and where did you find that child bunker gear? i want some for my daughter LMAO. cute.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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It's hard to understand exactly what your question is. Are you upset that this chief won't use your dept.? Does that chief not participate in any MA or just picks what dept can respond? When Automatic Aid started here there were basic requirements. Minimal staffing of 3 with an officer was one.
I'd recommend that MA agreements include a prohibiton of Jr/explorer responding.
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Permalink Reply by Nicolas Ruelle Roberts on
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I live in south Michigan and many dept's around here now you have to be 21 to get on.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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u have to learn sometime other wise u would have no one in the fire service most firefighters start before high school and then some go to collage for it
This is a fallicy. There are many firefighters out there who never participated as a junior nor learned the job prior to getting on a dept. It just shows that this job can be learned after someone reaches recognized adulthood.
so it is not a bad thing thst kids are used i think most guys are jealous of the younger boys
No, it is a bad thing to use kids on the fireground.
i believe that under 18's should be use under control of the officer or leave the kid with the pump operator
I agree here. If a junior, etc, does do a ride along, the proper place is in the role of observation, not participation.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Weber on
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That's definitely a problem.Heck,we have a guy in his early 70's who is still like that.Been in the dept.for 30 some odd years and when the siren comes on his brain shuts off.Getting worse as he gets older.Other than that general info.,it's a long story.
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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I started when I was 15. I had no choice being a legacy. I fought my first working fire 2 months after our fire I training which gives you the basics. The is there were 2 other senior FF's on the line with me. I never went inside. We always had JR members and started a Cadet Program. it keeps the company alive.
As for not calling mutual aid that can only cause bad things to happen, especially if its the closest company. The Chief should man up and talk to the other chief and tell him the reasons he is hesitant to call his company. I'm sure the chief would understand maybe make a rule that only senior FF can respond to the other companies district.
Since theres only 10 companies in the county I hope you folks have some kind of monthly meeting to discuss procedures. How about implementing a rule that JR's wear red helmets or some kind of shield so people know thier not interior qualified. We did it in New Castle County with 21 companies and it works fine. We use Yellow Shields.
But what can these members do on a fire scene, throw ladders, be a hydrant person, hump hose, p/u hose, rack hose, get tools, We all know theres alot of things that need to be done on a fire scene besides put water on the fire. I can't count the times as a driver where I and some paramedics had to throw ladders due to manpower issues.
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But what can these members do on a fire scene,
throw ladders,....No, jr's shouldn't be utilized in such manner.
be a hydrant person ....In a very long stretch, but again, jr's role is to observe, not participate
hump hose, p/u hose, rack hose ....For clean up maybe
get tools...what happened to FF's having a tool with them? I can live with that to some extent
Despite how it may have been years ago, reality is that kids should not be utilized on a fireground. Such programs should not be training ground, but instead a chance to see what the job entails. Kids should NOT be utilized in a FF capacity in any way, no matter what kind of quals they may have. The very minimum age to be a FF should be 18, there is no reason a dept should have to depend upon children for mitigating an emergency.
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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It sure as heck is our place to question his decision. To clarify: it is the duty of the citizens in his first due to make sure adequate coverage can be provided by his department. I'd be pretty upset if my house burned down because a chief has decided that a neighbouring department (who's members are able to meet state requirements) isn't "qualified" to work in his area.
I don't know any details, as chief, he gets to make the call. That said, he'd better be able to deliver the goods with the resources he has.
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Permalink Reply by Karr Quintero on
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my question is, does any other departments around that cheif have crews that suit his needs or are all dept's full of 18yo's???
and cant a MA agreement exclude those members?
what about liability on loss due to manpower and refusal of MA?
our part of the county doesnt seem to have very many under 25's, infact i havent seen any yet.
but MA out here has been a blessing and has saved alot of homes and wildland..
im glad we got good neighbors...
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