Recently my department heald training at our county's smoke house. during one of the evolutions a proby from one of the other dparments panicked while inside, the two other men on his hoseline had to DRAG him out. the team anounced the exit but didn't call a mayday, by the time they got to the door myself and other members of the rit team noticed that he was unconscious. He turned out to be ok. but do you think they were right in handling it themselfs or should they have called a mayday and let the rit come in and help... I mean isn't that why we were there?

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I wrote that wrong ... it is the other way around
Samuel,

Were MAYDAY procedures and RIT operations clearly explained by the instructors prior to this evolution taking place?

Can you state that you have had extensive MAYDAY training and would know how to call a MAYDAY and the situations in which one should call a MAYDAY?

Do you know if other participants have had the same type of training?

The point of this thread was not necessarily to debate this instant alone but to bring about discussion indivual departments sop and and possably shared wisdom from more experenced ff.

I know it isn't the point, but the training details do matter. While many responded here with the Monday morning QB reaction of a MAYDAY should have been called etc, the training and experience level comes into play. That is the purpose of questioning because if you do have a group of newer FFs and even juniors in such a training, such experience should be questioned.

Point is if it is a single dept doing training, the SOGs should be known as well as procedures. Basically a RIT could be assigned and the crew would know how to function. However, "real" emergency procedures should still be covered prior to training.

When working in a multi-dept drill, the training levels can be different and same with experience level which is why again emergency procedures should be gone over so everyone is on the same page.

For a training like what you are saying, it is even more imperative to make things clear because it is quite possible the same level of knowledge as experienced folks is not there. It is easy for someone to sit on the internet and say what could have or should have occurred etc, but a difference if people really haven't had MAYDAY training.

I'm not really debating this particular incident, but trying to point out the training/experience aspect which can go across the board. Where some may see this incident as an obvious MAYDAY event, if the participants were not trained in how or when to call a MAYDAY etc, then it is hard to say they would know what to do.

I know your original question was asking if people thought they were right and asking about RIT being used and I think you got the answer. It is tough to say for sure and the response can vary on what is encountered. For me, regarding that question, I think the team could have taken care of this issue, the only thing is they should have made it more clear as to why they were exiting. Someone panicking could be any number of issues and it is tough to say if they were right or wrong without knowing the details they did encounter and what they did while inside, be it trying to calm the person etc.
Any situation that requires a member be "taken out" needs a call in to RIT. What if something else happens on the way out, what if air supply was running low and you were on your way out already; you would use a considerable higher amount of air pulling someone else out. Many reasons to call a RIT; Ego should never stop a person from doing so.
I guess I need to clarify something. Calling for a May Day or for the RIT team doesn't necessarily mean you sit and wait for them. IF, and it is a big IF, you know the way out, are capable of making your way out with the downed firefighter, AND have communications with the RIT team to let them know your plans, and intended path, so they can meet you, I see no reason not to start to make your way out of the building.

COMMUNICATION is key with this process.
Yep. agreed......seems I learned that from somewhere????? I don't know, but I recall an instructor with a goofy looking little green car......gosh, if I only remembered what he said???....ahhh heck, probably not important.


Yep, communication is key and another important element to train on, especially is stating something like "activating PASS", "pounding on the floor", "looking for egress" etc.
We have a Big Orange Button on our radios. if a firefighter is in trouble, (s)he presses the button and automaticaly goes to TAC6, our Emergency Traffic Channel. When this button is pressed, All the Channels immediatly get a loud ring and it overrides all other units on the TAC channel being used for out incedent. Then, a Dispatcher and the Dispatch Operations Floor Captian automaticaly go to that channel as well. Then the highest ranking firefighter or officer (Capt, Staff Assisstant, Batt Chief, Division Chief etc...) is adviced. Then the RIC is called to assist. It all seems like it takes a while, but it only takes about 2-5 seconds.

Everytime that button is hit, our RIC team goes in. The button is ussualy used only for major problems (lost, FF down, fall through...). But if you feel like your in trouble, call you RIC/RIT team, if you dont need, then it easy to cancel.

Our RIC teams are conprised of ussualy the 2nd due engine and the 2nd due lightforce. this makes a taskforce. If its a major incedent, then it may be the 4th or 5th, depends on how quick companys get on scene. If there is a USAR on the call-out, they are RIC with the 2nd or 3rd due engine and 2nd due ALS rescue.
We have a Big Orange Button on our radios. if a firefighter is in trouble, (s)he presses the button and automaticaly goes to TAC6, our Emergency Traffic Channel. When this button is pressed, All the Channels immediatly get a loud ring and it overrides all other units on the TAC channel being used for out incedent. Then, a Dispatcher and the Dispatch Operations Floor Captian automaticaly go to that channel as well. Then the highest ranking firefighter or officer (Capt, Staff Assisstant, Batt Chief, Division Chief etc...) is adviced. Then the RIC is called to assist. It all seems like it takes a while, but it only takes about 2-5 seconds.

Everytime that button is hit, our RIC team goes in. The button is ussualy used only for major problems (lost, FF down, fall through...). But if you feel like your in trouble, call you RIC/RIT team, if you dont need, then it easy to cancel.

Our RIC teams are conprised of ussualy the 2nd due engine and the 2nd due lightforce. this makes a taskforce. If its a major incedent, then it may be the 4th or 5th, depends on how quick companys get on scene. If there is a USAR on the call-out, they are RIC with the 2nd or 3rd due engine and 2nd due ALS rescue.
We have a Big Orange Button on our radios. if a firefighter is in trouble, (s)he presses the button and automaticaly goes to TAC6, our Emergency Traffic Channel.

We have a similar button on our radios and such a procedure should really be looked into. Number one, it is easier to key the mike on the assigned channel, with a gloved hand, to call a MAYDAY, than it is to hit an orange button.

Secondly depending how the signal is setup, dispatch learns of the MAYDAY prior to fireground units. If the setup is like ours, only dispatch can release an inadvertent activation of the EMERGENCY button to get back to the right channel.

Overall, it has been learned that such an activation of the orange button is not that practical, especially on a fire scene. It works better to call a MAYDAY and if need be, have suppression activities go to a different channel.
MAN I MISS THAT CAR!!
In my depts and the surrounding depts we cooperate with we have 1 adopted policy, and the short of it is.....

A firefighter who is in distress is urged to call a MAYDAY. Set off your PASS and if equipped, activate your emergency/firefighter down beacon on your radio.
Command will annouce that all routine radio traffic move to a new tac freq.
Command will ask for a "UCAN" report.......it's as following

Unit: identifier
Condtion: injuries, air supply, location, lost, etc
Actions: what your doing in order to fix the situation
Needs: What do you need to help? More air, someone to lead you out, etc.

Command will determine who and what to send in (RIT, equipment, etc)
Rescue begins.
As soon as you even think the crap may hit the fan, you should be calling for the RIT.
I think that if any one that goes down there should be a call for help and a mayday should go out. In any kind of training or any thing that is live. Get the help coming.

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