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here is another --what would you do
2 door BMW 5 feet off the pavement on it's side hung up in a tree. The car is on a 60 deg slope and it's very slippery from loose soil, pine needles (6-8" deep) and moisture. The trees are 1 or 2 live ones the rest dead. The car snapped off a 16" dia dead tree and is resting on the trunk and a 14" dia live tree (trunk shown in pic #3 after the car was rolled over) . it is approximately 10 feet down a 40 foot slope. Front seat passenger is trapped and has a broken leg and rear seat passenger has a foot that is pinched between passenger side door and seat and a previous broken ankle . The bottom of the car as it sits (right hand side ) is 4 ft off the sloping ground at the front passenger , 5 ft at rear.
I am very interested in what folks would do. We had res-q-jacks, cutter, spreaders, air bags, truck mount winches,ropes and general rescue tools at our disposal. Wrecker was called but took 75 minutes to get on scene -- and it was a flatbed !
definitely appreciate hearing any ideas.
I am very interested in what folks would do. We had res-q-jacks, cutter, spreaders, air bags, truck mount winches,ropes and general rescue tools at our disposal. Wrecker was called but took 75 minutes to get on scene -- and it was a flatbed !
definitely appreciate hearing any ideas.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on
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Not going to be a POPULAR option but I would be inclined to do a two part line double lift(rigged front and rear to suspension components) in a hyd tow truck(Wrecker,not a DAMN Flatbed)Tension the car slowly to a low lift. Secure the bottom to the wheel lift,VERY slowly advance to the road where you can use several CONVENTIONAL methoods to free the occupants. In the present state,no GOOD way to truly secure it and still work.YES,this can be done with no further injury to the patients.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on
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We definitely considered your option. --unfortunately 1. dispatch ignored my immediate request for a wrecker (wanted to hear the request from police ) and even then we got a flatbed. These flatbeds are becoming way to popular and standard response . we need a new class of wrecker to differentiate these and even class D's between haulers and boom wreckers.
after numerous discussions about this here, the option we could of done that might have worked if I didn't have to push too much metal was --tensioned high and low line from my rescue truck using winch and come-a-long to the undercarriage. Tensioned angled line back up slope from the undercarriage to second winch on mini-pumper. and finally a come-a-long tensioned line from top of vehicle downslope to a tree grouping. This might secure the vehicle but would not give you much in the way of hardpoints to earth for spreader operations.
with a lot of spreading and cutting needed your option may have been the only viable one.
In reality our patients weren't hurt or trapped this bad so we got lucky . -
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Lutan, with our multi-service sharing of an incident like that, would we have the same problems? I find it hard to believe that we would have, but I'm not in a rescue brigade so don't really have the experience.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Use a vehicle-mounted winch and a spreader bar with chains/hooks on hard points in the floor pan or suspension.
Build two cribbing bases and gently place two ResQJacks against the frame side of the car.
GENTLY apply tension with the winch to lock the vehicle to the ResQJacks.
Use additional ResQJacks and cribbing to complete stabilization of the front end and roof sides of the vehicle.
Insert a rescuer through a window. Assess entrapment, patient condition, and start treatment as appropriate.
Remove the driver's door.
If necessary, and if room permits, insert another rescuer.
If the front seat passenger is trapped by the dashboard, relief cut the two A-posts and lift the dash with a spreader or short ram.
Package the front-seat patient and remove him/her from the vehicle. This could take a lot of muscle power, or a rope system with an Artificial High Directional, or even a Ladder Gin.
Remove the front passenger seat to free the back seat patient.
Package that patient and remove in the same manner as the first patient.
In my world, everyone is a firefighter, has basic extrication qualifications, and is either an EMT or paramedic, so the exact people doing the interior work don't matter. Our primary rescue/truck company would do the stabilization and direct any necessary rope work. -
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Unfortunate. Around here,if we ask for something the ONLY reason we won't get it is if is NOT available.Glad you had a good outcome.
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If you are going to work that hard,why not bring it back to the wheels? Which you could do(rather easily)with the equipment you listed.
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Mark,in further study a 21' Fladbed would have worked with a PROPERLY trained operator. Secure the bottom edge of the car to the deck.Cross chain with a strut to the car an tension a winch line to the upper lower frame members. Then tip the body down slightly and move ahead . Then the body can be tipped back down to allow access for the tools.Try it sometime on the training ground.
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Because we don't move vehicles containing trapped patients except as a last resort.
It's about what's the safest for the patient, not about what's the easiest for the rescuers.
If you have the equipment to stabilize the vehicle in place and do the extrication without moving the vehicle, that's generally the safest for the patient. -
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Tony, I haven't seen anything other than a flatbed tow truck for many many years. (Except for the heavy haulage).
We generally have no problems getting anything that is asked for- ESTA are a despatch organisation, not a control organisation. -
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..and because we can have the extrication completed before we could get a wrecker with lifting capability to the scene, and do it with much less patient movement and much less risk to the patient.
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You're right, it's been a hell of a long time since I last saw anything other than a flatbed!
And yes, anything we want, we ask for. If it's really out of the box, we'll ask for the District Duty Officer to get it for us - he has more rank :o) -
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At what risk to the RESCUE personnel? Using the info provided by the OP,I would find it safer (for all) to MOVE the vehicle. You and I are on opposite sides of the fence on this issue. I'm OK with that. And you DON'T need a spreader bar.V chain or straps will give you plenty of angle without compromise.
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