hi everyone i would like to get your input on flashover simulators such as pos and neg sides of it.

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Derek, apparently that wasn't the case for Jeff. That's why I question putting people in the simulators at all. The quest for fire training realism has led to fire training LODDs all too often.

That's realistic, but it's not desirable.
What happened to "when it gets too hot, either extinguish and vent immediately, or GET OUT!" ???

I understand the theory, but you can recognize the warning signs from the outside with less risk to the students.

For the simulators that are operated aggressively, I'm seeing a lot of the old "we have to make it as realistic (spelled HOT) as possible so that the students get the entire experience. Those are training LODDs waiting to happen.
We do not send firefighters to flashover or backdraft simulators.
We teach them flashover/backdraft RECOGNITION.
Teaching fire behavior and building construction will add to a firefighter's knowledge base.
Going into a simulator will only teach them that THAT is somewhere they don't want to be.
Plus; the manufacturers of turnout gear will be quick to point out that their gear has limitations.
Why ruin gear just for a "joy ride"?
i went through a flash over sim at allegheny fire school and i loved it. we got to see it form and the signs and a couple ways to try to prevent it. learned alot and didn't really have any cons. The Sim i was in the fire never was near you you were about 5 feet below it. most sims do teach recognition.
With all of the discussion, I completly agree that trashing gear is foolish, we run a simulator with tempature probes to monitor the temps inside. We have discovered we can get the room to flash without exceeding 400 degrees F at head level of the students (face piece failure), with that we show how poor ventilation we can draw the fire thru the chamber, we work on 3D firefighting skills by cooling gases, and what can happen when we throw water everywhere and trash the thermal balance. We work the Simulator in different tempatures outside to show that colder more dense air speeds up the process of Flashover. In short we have attempted to get more from the Simulator than the oos and aas of fire above your head so know the instructor that is running the training so you get the best educational bang for your buck.
thanks again for all the input on this topic.i am not wishing to trash my gear ruin my helmet or anything like that.i am merely looking to gain a lil bit of insight on the conditons.i am planning to take other classes to gain better knowledge of things.again thanks everyone
Kevin, we are doing a training in Feb if you wish you can help out to see if this something you wish to do.....616-889-3784
I'm replying before reading further posts. I know....bad idea. But I already started.
You point out a good fact, Ben. It wouldn't be so bad if all instructors used the simulator for what it's used for and not try to replicate flashover, then maybe the LODD's in training would decrease. But that leads to another point you made about what's the sense if it's not actually simulating a real flashover and giving a false sense of security. I would have to say that seeing the signs of pre-flashover and learning what to do about it in the simulator, is better than being surprised in an actual event. And even as unrealistic as it may be, at least it gives the FF something to try in the event one occurs while he's working.
I would like to know how Jeff's instructor reacted when he noticed his lid was melting.
where are at.id llike to help out
Just give me a call whenever, on shift tonight.
There hot! lol Really, they are a good learning expericene for someone who has never seen how quickly all the gases and vapors in a room can catch on fire. They are a whole lot of fun!!!

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