The other training issue/discussion we have had here at my dept. recently is the advancement of dry line vs wet line into a fire structure. The advantages or each and the disadvantages of each. We recently had a fire in the area in which this was a big issue and resulted in the death of 2 FF's. Our deptment conducted some training evo's and found out some key issues that must be addressed and some things that may be a surprise to some. I think that it was believed that advancing a dry line into the structure and then getting water would be faster than advancing a charged line to the seat of the fire. However we found out that is was most cases at least 30-40 seconds slower and in some cases over a minute. Most of this was communications and water to nozzle time. Communication was one of the biggest issues as it often is. With us we have found out as most others have that 8oomhz digital radios pretty much stink on the fire ground operations. I could go on for awhile on this subject, however I just would like some other opinions from you guys. We concluded that barring some rare circumstances there was just no reason to enter a fire structure without a charged line. Now I am talking about a residensial fire not a warehouse fire where abviously circumstances could be different.

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If you stop to think about the mobility of an 1 3/4 line there is not reason to not enter a single family home with a uncharge hose line. One of the real dangers to consider with advancing a dry hose line is have a door close behind you on the hose line and occluding the line from being charged leaving the nozzleman with no water and a hot fire, not a good combo. In multi-family homes that have two or more floors you may also consider sending a crew to the second floor landing and droping a rope out the second floor window and raising the charged line up on floor in stread of winding it through the stair case. And yes I hate my 800mz radio, communications is terrible.
Well I will take the stance of it really depends on what you have showing when you pull up. If there is fire showing on the first floor I have the line charged before the crew enters the door. If it is on the second or third floors I give them a 5 count and send the water. Now if there is nothing showing when we pull up and the crew makes entry I wait till I hear from the officer. I follow the same guide lines no matter if it's an apartment or house.
A working residential fire, A CHARGED LINE... no if's and's or but's.
I agree, you wont see me going in without the line being charged. There is always that what if something dont work or go right factor (Hose failure, Nozzle failure, Pump failure, etc...) Our communications are pretty good most of the time but we still dont depend on them. Alot of the time in the case where the structure is not fully involved I still like some water to cool things down, to avoid a flashover.

Stay Safe
If I am expected to go into a burning structure I want a charged line with me. If there is nothing apparent on arrival, then investigation takes priority.

Just as you wouldn't enter an IDLH atmosphere without breathing apparatus, nor should you enter a burning structure without water. It's your protection against the environment.

If nothing is showing then I may go and investigate with a dry hose line, If fire is showing not way am I going to go to the door with a dry hoseline. This is the time when you need to hit the fire hard and knock it out. This cant be done with a dry hoseline now can it?
Dammit dude
We are going to be going to 800mhz Digital radios I have heard nothing good about them other than they make a dandy paperweight...
we use 800mhz trunk system in Fayette county,PA.

We always have problems either getting the busy signal when keying up on can't catch a signal but the problems stem mostly because we do not have enough towers to catch the signals down in some of the valleys. The radio's work better when the leaves are off the trees then when they are on interfers with the signal reaching the towers.

The old system we used was low band 33.70 never had a problem with signal loss all the engines use to have the long whip attenas on them and we could get a signal out with no problem.

With the 800mhz high band you have more channels to talk on but if it works like ours I wish you good luck!
I always send my people threw the door with a charged line most of the houses in our area our two story residental and I want my people to have water with them especially if we have smoke showing.
I have to agree charged line I would hate to get inside wait for the water and well have the truck lose suction , the lose prime and well guess what no water.. Still could happen with in.. Would feel much better knowing the line I carry in is charged alittle more work in the carrying,but feel better when you turn on the nozzle and water come out....
A charged hose line is fundamental when entering any structure on fire. I would rather muscle a line and have water available as soon as I open the line up over having to wait for the water to reach the nozzle when its charged. If it is exterior and going upstairs, then ill take a dry line so I can lay it out, but I am not going to enter the interior unless I have a charged line.
I think everyone needs to go back to basic,SAFETY FIRST,ALWAYS
I am the instructor for my department and i always teach safety first so ill let everyone in turnout gear be their own judge!!!!!!!!!

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