Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on January 30, 2008 at 11:54pm

No- to us it's the "airwing" in my response area....

Permalink Reply by william on January 31, 2008 at 12:27am

ha thats a new one never herd that one befor...i will have to use that...we also use bird and air taxi...cause thats what the ems is used for around her a damn taxi lol...

Permalink Reply by Stacy Banderinko on January 31, 2008 at 9:23pm

everything you stated is true. i tend to exaggerate a lot, so my "cribbing the shit out of the car" pretty much means that you just want to make sure there is enough to support the car. i should have clarified what i said. also, i never trust that anything is stable, even after taking the proper measures and precautions. and i was just stating anything that could possibly happen on this scene, that's not to say that any of it would happen. i wouldn't expect any of those fluids to spontaneously ignite or to travel much farther than where they are, but i always place the safety of the team before anything. and this is just a discussion and i don't hear anyone besides the two of us and the originator of this particular scenario.

Permalink Reply by Brian White on February 2, 2008 at 11:52pm

we had a guy get hit by a train in town . he was by himself in a 4 door chrysler. the train hit him pretty square on the passenger side of the car. down the tracks they go , about 200 yards from where he gets hit is a narrow ( about 8 inches wider than the train) tressel over what we call a river but is really a big creek. he says he was awake for the whole ride. the train takes him down the tracks hits the tressel and tears the car in half directly behind the drivers seat. so close the B pillar was gone and the back of the drivers seat was torn. this is one instance that not wearing a seat belt saved a life, if he would have had it on it would have torn him in half. the two continued down the tracks , total distance of a half mile before all the noise stopped.when we arrived on scene he was hugging the steering wheel.extrication was done by caanadian national. rescue did there thing and he went to the hospital. all he got was alot of brusies and a big cut on his head . really thats it. oh if your wondering what happened to the other half of the car , the local wrecking yard sent a truck to pulll it out of the " river".

Permalink Reply by Roger Bellinder on February 3, 2008 at 12:41am

As far as the cargo issue for this train I dont think there would be much if any hazardous cargo with passenger cars being one of the cargo also for the instability of the train the engineer standing in the engine does not appear to be to alarmed.I would have a hoseline within feet of the accident in case of fire.I would also have a extracation team {JAWS} standing by at the side of the car or as close as possable as to not get in the way of EMS whom by the way in this pic sould have more personal protection for their face as for the other people there if they are not part of the rescue team do not need to be there and i TOTALLY agree on the cribbing the SHIT out of the car.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on February 3, 2008 at 5:35am

Alright then- interesting discussion thus far.

Here's 2 more photos of the scene- does this change anything in terms of the response?

What about hazards?

Anything else to consider?

I've got some more photos to put up after a bit more discussion, they show close ups, etc

Let's assume that there's a driver and front seat passenger trapped in this one.

Attachments:

• Trainside1.jpg, 200 KB
• Trainside2.jpg, 198 KB

Permalink Reply by Michael Bates on February 3, 2008 at 10:37am

This location seems remote, manpower will become an issue if you need to shuttle equipment in from the trucks . access seems pretty limited for a large pumper or heavy rescue, it does look like in the second pic that there is sometype of vehicle on the tracks, If it's a ambulance then you certainly do not want to block it's only way out.I believe it takes approx. 1 mile for a train traveling a 50 mph to come to a complete stop. my experience w/ train vs cars is that the vehicle will be pushed several hundred feet past the point of impact presumably a crossing which will most likely be your best point of access. this railroad bed is banked and comprised of large stones, if any of you have ever walked the tracks, you will know how easy it is to be tripped up by these stones and/or RRties so this will also slow down the process a little. .

Permalink Reply by william on February 3, 2008 at 11:04am

ok from the new looks at the pics i still would not change the style of cribbing that i stated in an earlyer post...and from the looks of the new pictures there is still no fluid conerns..i dont see anything leaking or anything on the ground.. and if you look real close they have a portable gen..and it looks to be a pair of jaws BUT NO CRIBBING AT ALL... COULD THE CAR BE STABLE AS IT SITS ? ah ooooo... on the other hand i really dont think that there is going to be much cutting or spreading of the car...maybe remove the B post at the most...i myself think that there is not much to this one...well not as much as everyone is making it out to be...just because there is some metal twisted does not mean that the pt is trapped or even hurt...

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on February 3, 2008 at 2:47pm

Michael you're spot on.

It is an Ambulance in the picture, on the tracks. (I have big issues with any vehicle parked on the tracks- I've been at a train suicide where the authroities assured us the trains had been stopped, when suddenly from the distance theres a rumble of an approaching train... I trust no one!)

The initial impact was about 500 metres up the track at a crossing.

Large stones are big problem- I too have almost come unstuck walking on these.

Permalink Reply by Ric Smith on February 3, 2008 at 3:46pm

Ok...here's my take. First, are the pt's ALS, BLS or both. Next, vehicle looks very stable as is (min. cribbing needed) the train didn't feel a thing. Pt's: If both are BLS, then we take c-spine of driver, remove the roof, place pt in a KED, lower backseat, & remove straight out the back (BLS means we keep the pt in as straight of a line as possible). The passenger on the other hand is no longer sitting straight up (do to intrusion caused by the right corner of the loco.). With the driver removed, we can now work to either remove the pt out the same way as the driver OR driverside of the vehicle (pt on their left side). We can start by taking c-spine of pt #2 and if going out the side, doing a driverside Maxi-door. Again, the interior (medic) has secured the ignition, placed vehcle in park (if poss.), identified airbags, identified pt's condition (ALS, BLS or both), best method of removal, any entrapment issues, & begun any ALS proceedures (if certified). Has anybody thought to back the train up? If the train is not attached to the car...why not?!?! This would also help if the passenger is ALS. Any additional info avail???

Permalink Reply by william on February 3, 2008 at 4:05pm

wow i was glad to see that atleast im not the only one that thinks the vehicle looks stable as is ! and also with the train not moving or anything either !

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on February 5, 2008 at 3:28am

For us a standard response would see two ambulances (Including MICA Paramedics- Sorry, MICA is Mobile Intensive Care Ambulance), Fire would be 2-3 trucks (Again different trucks for different areas. In an urban setting you'd get Pumpers, in rural, more than likely Tankers or Pump/Tanker or similar. Rescue would vary from areas to area as well, but generally only 1 truck.

Depending on man power, we would generally try and put 1 member with the train driver. I've been to an incident where a driver in shock tried to move the train with all the emergency services under and around it (He was late for his timetable!!!!) The Master Key would be removed and handed over to the Police (Again this protects us from the previous mentioned issue).

In an urban area, the trains can be driven from either end, so we would also put a member in the cabin, at each end. (Again, this protects us from the previous problems of moving trains). All of these members would alos have a radio just in case all our safety measures failed and they need to urgently call to clear the tracks, etc.

A call would go into what's known here is "Metrol". They control all the trains. We would automatically ask for the line to be shutdown from all other trains. (All signals get put to red). We would also ask for a train representative if it hasn't already been arranged. (No one can remove passengers from a train (unless they are in danger) unless a company representative is on scene- this includes the Police as well)

We would also get battery jumper leads (Not sure what you guys call them- for jump starting flat batteries on your car) and clamp them between the guage of the tracks. This also puts the signals into red as they think there's a train on the tracks.

No vehicle would ever park on or across the tracks, even with all the forementioned safety measures in palce- it's just not worth it

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