Charleston conducted an interior attack with small-caliber lines. My comment above concerned the possibilities if they had used 2.5 inch interior lines instead.
When you say "And if the CFD had used 2.5 inch lines.....along with masterstreams (like I said I would do if the need arises for a 2.5 inch line)" you are either a) advocating mixing interior 2.5 inch lines with exterior master streams at the same time or b) talking about a completely different situation than what Charleston had at the SSS fire? If the first, then you're advocating something that goes against Basic Firefighting 101 and if the second, then you're not responding to what I actually said, and throwing another straw man into the mix.
You might not remember it, but if you RE-READ this thread....you will see it (unless people deleted posts) and if you can't find it.....I will then go back and cut and paste for you (I'm too tired to go thru all that right now)
You can't find the posts that said I was wrong....yet you found my FFN join date,,,,kinda weird, but to each his own
So....you are saying that YOU are allowed to be "opinionated and give our 2 cents whether I want it or not"....but giving MY opinion when it's asked for (refer back to the thread starter) but YOU don't agree with it....is opening the door for a lot of enemies ?
Is that what you were trying to say ? If so.....I really could care less about internet enemies, and I could care less if people agree with my opinion or not.
And if "no one cares where I'm from....or how I do it there" then why was this thread started....check this out, I'll do all the work for you THIS time : Just getting some input the ups and downs of using a 2 1/2 inch line as a IA attack line would like all input. thanks
AZFIREFIGHTER<-----that was the original posters comment, he wanted input....ALL INPUT (he didn't stipulate ONLY input that CAPT ENG7INE agrees with) therefore I added MY input...apparently much to your dismay)
In closing....I will quote something YOU wrote....that if you read it it will help you ...here, and in life in general ----->Get over yourself. If you don't like the responses to your post, close the discussion and don't post again untill you have read some of these threads. You learn alot about people by just seeing how they respond to things on here.<---- maybe time to take a lil advice from yourself??
Tony.....I find it kinda funny that you aren't from this country (U.S.A.) yet....you have better reading comprehension than most of the Americans that have replied to me.
You seem to read the actual words that I have typed.....not tried to add or subtract from them.
I said I won't operate like FDNY just because they do this this way, and I/we want to be cool like them.......but apparently SOME people seem to read something along the lines of......the FDNY does NOT know how to operate and anyone that does things that remotely resemble them are fools, mindless minions....blah blah blah.
Maybe we could start an International Thread helping people to learn how to read, and remember things???
What do you think?
Just one. Are you in politics? You spent all of that time, and didn't answer my question. I couldn't find your profile, to get an idea of your area or experience. I'm not going to waste my time getting into personalities. The point I made is that 2-1/2" line is just another tool in the box. How and when it gets used is up to the people in the white hats.
If it was, just let me know....but be advised that CAPT ENG7INE might get upset with you, and tell you yer gonna make enemies here because no one cares where I'm from and how I operate<------SARCASM, in case people have a difficult time understanding that
Ben Waller, were these comments/question for me? (I'm having a hard time keeping track)
A 2.5 inch line does not equal a master stream.
Why do you say that? 2.5 inch attack lines are the line of choice in large, open occupancies and for high-rise fires.
If they were indeed meant for me, I will explain (once AGAIN) what I mean't in the 2.5 = masterstream comment......that was a comment directed at the gentleman that said that if a 2.5 is needed then you shouldn't be inside......I agreed with his comment, and made my statement, the statement implied (I know....I am learning that I can't imply here....cuz people don't even READ the exact words you write) that statement implied that if you need a 2.5, there will/should/or soon will be masterstreams in operation <---that was MY opinion, how I operate....and how I will continue to operate.......sorry if that upsets you, or you continue to think I'm lying....but I assure you I'm not (I will even offer the same to you....pm me if you want to do a ride along)
the "why do you say that ?" <----I have no clue what you are talking about, but I will be sure to answer if you let me know what you are asking.
And the 2.5 MAY be the line of choice in large, open occupancies and for high rise fires where YOU are from......but I can also assure you that it is NOT that way where I am from (again....even if you think I am lying) thats the funny thing about the world we live in.....things that work in one place and are considered the "norm" or are considered to be ABSOLUTE.......CAN be NOT the "norm " or ABSLOUTE in others (you seem to be having a difficult time grasping that concept)
I was standing in Philly watching 1 Meridan Plaza, and I am very aware of what happened there....therefore I have no need to look it up. But you might want to look up improperly set pressure reducing valves on standpipes in that fire
And I have no idea of your qualifications as a Fire Protection Engineer, but I can assure you that the gentleman that designed the system for the National Archives, and the U.S. Capitol visitors center was not "wrong" in the way he designed those systems.
Oh yeah......just to inform you in your world of absloutes ......be careful throwing the words ALWAYS......REQUIRED.....and such around, because federal Government buildings are allowed by law to NOT conform to any building standards.
"Your opinon is the opinon of several other firefighters, fire officers, and fire departments, and that opinon has lead to significant line of duty deaths.
I though we were talking about hose line application....if we were then you would know that gpms put out BTU's....if you wanna change the subject to incipient fire extinguishment, preaction systems, and various other methods of fire extinguishment I would be glad to.....but right now we are talking about hose line choice to apply water....which for fire extinguishment requires the proper amount of flow (gpms) for extinguishment."
PLEASE back up your first sentence with PROOF that MY opinion lead to ANY of those......I will STILL be waiting.
And for your other comment......WE (meaning ME, and whomever else actually read the original posters question) were talking about 2.5 inch lines AS AN INTERIOR ATTACK LINE, and peoples INPUT ON THAT subject.
YOU changed it up to hoseline application, hoseline choice to apply water, and earlier made the statement that "Its simple science fire produces btu's the only thing that puts out btu's are gpms. You have to flow enough gpms in order to overcome the BTU rate if you dont then the fire will not go out until its fuel supply is empty." That statement is a stand alone statement, that I completely disagree with.....you made no inference or statement that the "science" you referred to was in relation to an unmentioned "qualifier statement"
Once again....and I will repeat S L O W L E Y , I will not use a 2.5 inch line as an INTERIOR (since that is what this WHOLE thread is about) attack line, I WILL use it if conditions dictate (which will be as an OUTSIDE DEFENSIVE line, to be augmented with various masterstreams) I hope that is a little easier to understand.....THIS time around.....sheesh
I don't recall saying that 2 1/2 is only good for masterstreams or supply.....BECAUSE I use them for defensive operations (therefore that would directly contradict what I wrote)
I also stated that in MY opinion using a 2 1/2 is useless, dangerous...and so on, as an INTERIOR line, I also stated that I understand the reasons that the FDNY uses them, and I believe those to be valid reasons.
Just as I stated that I won't "do things just because __fd " does it....and I am glad that my depts don't have a bunch of mindless minions that will do such things.
I have read....and re-read my posts.....and I would kindly invite you to read what I write, not infer, or "in effect" things......and if (for some reason) you care to get any clarification from me.......just ask
I'm a hunt and peck typist.....and think faster than my fingers move (even if any of you think otherwise), that IN NO WAY is trying to say that I don't stand by my opinions, or posts.........just saying that if a giant chunk of a paragraph is missing, or people choose to get a clarification....I will try to better get my point across