FETC, I am glad you find my comments funny. And I know exactly what my lines flow (but thanks for that info), just as I know exactly how easy they are to maneuver, and to advance once charged.
Altho I do NOT understand how a charged 1.75 200' line "with the right nozzle" can "offer FAR less work for your firefighters to manuever" Math isn't my strong suit, but please explain how a line that weighs more is easier to maneuver than one that weighs less.....thanks.
I love when people try to tell me (or others) that due to their scientific research it is impossible, improbable, or unlikely that we can put out fires with our 1.5 inch lines.
To clarify (or to try to) I understand and have no problems with research or studies....just don't take them as the word of God.
I have put out many fires that according to fire flow calculations would require 200 gpm or more....with an inch and a half flowing 125 gpm at best (no, not chest thumping....I just didn't write clinical studies on those fires or pick up "buzz" words there to impress people.....just letting you know that I WITNESSED it, so I didn't need to read about it)
And incase that question was directed at me, I don't want to interrupt the fire curve...nor could I care less about it....all I want to do is put the fire out as quickly as I can. And yes, I do know what the "fire curve" is.
If you are asking my opinion on your 5 inch, you need to give me a little more information on your department, apparatus, water supply infrastructure, manning, assignments, activity, and area (construction types, occupancy loads ect.) before I can offer that to you. (if that comment wasn't directed to me...then disregard)
I will offer that LDH in my departments (paid and volunteer) is not only overkill, but it generally created more obstacles to overcome therefore after about a year or so of use, it was taken off the engine companies and places on special "water supply" units.
That leads ME back to the original post, "Just getting some input the ups and downs of using a 2 1/2 inch line as a IA attack line would like all input. thanks"......MY input, interior attack with supply line (2.5 or 3 inch...or anything bigger) USELESS, DANGEROUS, RIDICULOUS, a waste of time, effort and manpower......and simply not going to happen when I am running the line. If it cant be put out with an inch and a half........then wagon pipe, ladder pipe, deck gun, deluge it (or whatever else you want to call it)
And if you can't get the apparatus or appliances close enough, then use the supply lines with nozzles after looping them around and sitting on them.
WE HAVE 1" 3/4 ATTACK LINES AS OUR INTIAL ATTACK,WE HAVE 2 1/2 ON THE HOSE BED--- BUT ONLY IF WE GO DEFENSIVE OR NEED TO PROTECT AN EXPOSURE. MYSELF AND ONE OF MY ASSISTANT CHIEFS REALLY GOT JACKED OFF THE GROUND ONE DAY BY A 2 1/2, WE LAUGH ABOUT IT NOW-- BUT BOY DID WE CUSS OUT THE PUMP OPERATOR THAT DAY!! STAY SAFE CHRIS
I find it amusing that a differing opinion is "just plain wrong". Almost as funny as your all seeing and all knowing eyes that can call into question my departments manning, my training, and my experience. Thats laughable. (I have no need to thump my chest on an internet forum and boast about myself or my department.....but if you wish you can send me a pm and I can try to set up a ride along)
I am well aware of what lines the FDNY uses, and the reasons they use them.......just as I am well aware of the lines my dept uses and why we use them......and I thank God everyday that my dept doesn't have a bunch of mindless minions running around doing things "just because _____ dept" does, and we want to be just like them.
If people started thinking for themselves in the fire service again....many things could be accomplished
And ONCE AGAIN....as I pointed out earlier in this discussion....MY INPUT is that using supply line as an interior line is USELESS, DANGEROUS, RIDICULOUS , a waste of time, effort and manpower......and simply not going to happen when I am running the line. And that won't change no matter what the FDNY (or West Philly) does.
Ah mate, I'm not saying that anyone does it wrong. I'm saying that things can be done differently in different places and still get the desired result. I admit my city isn't that large - only about 4.5 million. But London, England is pretty big and they seem to do pretty well using HP reels for attack. They also use other methods when required, as do we.
I think it's really about horses for courses. Use what needs to be done for the job you have. Use what you and your FRS have found to be the most suitable equipment and method. Aim to keep people safe and to limit damage. That's what we do, and it works with our methods - I'd say thats what you do and it works at least as well as our methods.
Michael, do you get the feeling that you're not allowed to have an opinion? Even though that's what the OP seemed to be after? That your FD is not allowed to have an opinion about what works well for them? It seems that way to me. Oh, I also note that apparently you have limited manpower, training and experience. I don't know if there was any evidence behind that statement...
You know, all I've been trying to do here is foster the idea (I didn't create it in this thread) that different things seem to work well in different places. But we keep striking the view that if it's not done our way, if it's not done how FDNY and others do it, then it's wrong, won't do the job and is probably only done by the uneducated. Fair comment do you think?
Michael, I've just read your last post after writing mine. No matter, I still feel like saying it all.
i think it depends on the officer frist on scene. lots of fire yes 2 1/2 is great. but little fire 1 3/4 is great. you have to think about water supply if you are in the county. in the city you have water. use a 2 1/2 to knot down the fire and go back to a 1 3/4 for overhaul. we been trying this out at the dept. i'm with. yes the 2 1/2 is a little work but it works well when their is lots of fire.
The size of the fire and the occupancy type should be the dictators of your line choice.
the 2 1/2 is and should be an interior line when the need arises for it. Anyone who says you can not move it has either had a bad experience with it (probably being over pumped with a fog nozzle on the end) or has not been trained properly both of these are correctable actions.
We routinely move a 2 1/2 with TWO people utilizing weebing to provide a mechanical advantage, teamwork and communication.....look up information from Dave Mcgrail, and John Newell on how to properly use the 2 1/2 and when to apply it.
Also if your not training on the ADULTS acronym or have never heard of it then you need to this is the guide on when to deploy the duece