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2 1/2 Inch attack line used for IA what do you think
Just getting some input the ups and downs of using a 2 1/2 inch line as a IA attack line would like all input. thanks
AZFIREFIGHTER
AZFIREFIGHTER
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mick Shelley on
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That's what I said Chief
I agree with you 100%
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Permalink Reply by Michael C. Harrison on
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DING DING DING....we have a winner....2 1/2 = masterstream
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"Anyone who says you can not move it has either had a bad experience with it (probably being over pumped with a fog nozzle on the end) or has not been trained properly both of these are correctable actions."
At least we can both agree on that statement
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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Not true 2 1/2 is the preffered hose line fo choice for highrise firefighting (since that what standpipe systems are designed for) thats interior firefighting is it not????
Also you can have a monster house with several rooms off but still a teneable avenue for deployment.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher (Woody) Hart on
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I originally come from a rural volunteer department when 1 3/4 was attack and 2 1/2 was supply. Since going through the academy I have learned the importance of " big fire big water". In the career department we run 2 man engines. A 2 1/2 can be handled easily by two people even one person if necessary. Change you hoses to ponns hose and your nozzles to high gallons low pressure or smooth bore nozzles, this wiil drop your pressure and increase you gallons. Make the hose into a s. The top of the s in your hand going down your body and the curve of the bottom of the s under your knee. All the back pressure is against your body and your knee, not in your hands. You can stand there for a long time. We especially pull the 2 1/2 any time there is big fire because the second due is usually over 5 minutes. It also works good to protect you exposures, either cooling down the exposures or putting down the btu's on the original fire. If you look at my home page we used the 21/2 on the trailor fire. We saved the exposure that the siding was melting on arrival. If we did not cut down the btu's of fire in a hurry we would of had 2 structures burning. Your brother Woody
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Not true 1 1/2 is the preferred hoseline of choice for highrise firefighting where I am from and YES, with an inch and a half it IS interior firefighting (see how that works.....you said "not true" and I say it is....either way, the next highrise (or ANY) fire I run, I will have an inch and a half in my hands)...unless it's a defensive operation
And since 2 1/2 is what standpipes are designed for.....what do you supply them with ? My depts. supply them with 3 inch,
Oh yeah, what if it's a combination sprinkler/standpipe system ? I personally know of no 2 1/2 inch sprinkler heads in use in normal occupancies ?
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Please pay attention so I won't have to go through ALL of this again.
I said 2 1/2 is supply line
Someone said it isn't
I said I use inch and a half
Someone said I didn't
I said the ONLY time I will use 2 1/2 inch is when there are also wagon pipes, ladder pipes, deluge sets (whatever you and or your dept. calls them)
Someone said I'm wrong
Someone said if a 2 1/2 is needed is should be a defensive/exterior (whatever you or your dept calls them)
I said DING DING DING......we have a winner (meaning that I agree with what he said ) I then said 2 1/2 = masterstream (meaning that IF a 2 1/2 is needed, there will be numerous masterstreams flowing from the outside as well) I just felt like saying it in a different way than I had ALREADY STATED IT NUMEROUS TIMES.
I am sure that I will soon be chided for saying the same thing in a different way, just as I have been for stating MY opinion, MY operations, and MY depts. SOP's
But I think it's very funny that people can actually tell me that I am WRONG by stating MY opinion on a thread that asked for it.......are you people ignorant, stupid.....or just plain dumb?
I hope that clears up your 400 gpm predicament....any more questions?
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Was there an interior attack on the trailer ?
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Permalink Reply by Captain 70 on
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Hey Mike, no one is using the 2-1/2 as an attack line just because FDNY or West Philly does it. They use it because that's what is right for them. It is not dangerous or ridiculous. They have the manpower and resources to use them as attack lines. My dept. has 2 hydrants and the rest are dry hydrants. We couldn't use a 2-1/2 for an attack line due to water supply. I'm a small town volly. Always have been. I have used a 2-1/2 on my last dept. for attack and it is actually very efficient on a large fire. For a room and contents, maybe too much. But a large structure like a garage or something, very useful.
And you can have an opinion about it. But you don't have to get disrespectful of others' opinions.
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Actually I don't remember anyone saying you were wrong. You are the one who has been defensive against anything anyone says. I see you haven't been a FFN member long. Just so you know, this place is just like the firehouse. We are very opinionated and alot of us will give our 2 cents weather you want it or not. But comming on here and calling people ignorant, stupid and just plain dumb is just opening the door for alot of enemies on here. No one cares where you are from or how you do it there. We are from all over the world and we all do things differently. Get over yourself. If you don't like the responses to your post, close the discussion and don't post again untill you have read some of these threads. You learn alot about people by just seeing how they respond to things on here.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Michael, WestPhilly and Kali ARE thinking for themselves. When you shout your opinion and then state that your opinion "...won't change no matter what..." you've just showed us all who isn't thinking here.
Calling people who have another opinion "mindless minions" and insinuating that they don't think for themselves is unwarrented. (One of the people who you called a "mindless minion" is in graduate school at Harvard University.)
It seems that you could benefit from a look in the mirror when complaining about people not thinking for themselves.
2.5 inch attack lines have their place for interior attacks. Do you ever fight a fire in occupancies larger than a 2,000 square foot single family dwelling? Have you ever heard of the National Fire Academy or Iowa fire flow formulas?
Refusing to use the appropriate size line for big box fires, high rise fires, or other large occupancies isn't safe, nor is it smart. Frankly, if I'm at one of those fires, I'd rather be on a 2.5 line with open-minded firefighters like WestPhilly and Kali than with a closed-minded firefighter who uses one hoseline size for all occasions.
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Tony,
Charleston, SC previously used 1.5 inch attack lines or smaller 1 inch booster reel lines for attack and 2.5 inch lines for water supply - the same things that Michael Harrison is advocating here. Those things contributed to nine firefighters dying at a single big box fire on June 18, 2007.
I don't consider that to be "doing perfectly well". Their previous mindset that they didn't need to change contributed to the multiple LODD fire as well.
My department uses 5 inch supply lines, and has for more than a decade.
We primarily use 1.75 inch attack lines, but we use 1.5 inch attack lines when the situation calls for it.
Using one size of hoseline for all occasions is like only having a hammer in your toolbox. That makes you percieve every problem as a nail instead of getting screwdrivers, saws, or wrenches when the problem calls for those tools.
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