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2 1/2 Inch attack line used for IA what do you think
Just getting some input the ups and downs of using a 2 1/2 inch line as a IA attack line would like all input. thanks
AZFIREFIGHTER
AZFIREFIGHTER
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael C. Harrison on
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Apparantly it IS my typing comprehension that is the problem here.
If there is anyone here that can decipher this post and translate it into the english language for me, so I can once again , try to help Ben understand....I would be very appreciative.
I stated that as an INTERIOR attack line, I see NO reason to stick a nozzle on a 2.5 inch handline.
I then stated that if I were to use a 2.5 inch handline, it would be as a DEFENSIVE line.....meaning NOT as an interior line.
I don't have any way to simplify this post with my limited communication skill, and my lack of ability to make coherent thoughts.
So please someone try to translate my incoherent babbelings so that the greater man might understand.
Thank you very much in advance.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Once again, you are now making distinctions that you didn't make in your initial posts.
That seems to be the pattern now.
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And...you still didn't give any explanation or science as a point of comparison.
Could it be that despite your claimed successful track record, that there could actually be a better way to do it?
You've already said that your department uses 2.5 inch leader lines. Maybe you should consider using the 2.5 for the first 500 feet of that 600 you just spoke of.
While you're at it, do you advance 600 foot 1.5 inch lines on the interior, and do you charge them prior to or after the stretch.
I've put fires out with a water can, too. That doesn't make using 2.5 inch lines on the interior dangerous or any of the other negative terms you used for it.
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Hmmm....I thought it was my inability to convey coherent thoughts.
Trust me (or don't ) I wasn't haven't nor will I yell about anything on the internet.
I use THESE HERE BIG LETTERS to add emphasis to my otherwise non-coherent un-understandable postings......and apparently THESE HERE BIG LETTERS are the only ones people here understand.
I will state softly, quietly....yet i'm sure just as incoherently that i won't take a 2.5 inch into a building, because if that size line is needed it's my opinion that the fire has taken total possesion of said structure....and in my opinion....that would be useless,dangerous,ridiculous....and simpily not going to happen when i'm running the line.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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WOW...600 foot 1 1/2 attack lines??? Do you realize what kind of stress that puts on the pumper. Also do you realize how much water your loosing having to pump at that high of a pressure??
I am gonna stop following this thread after this anyway so feel free to reply or not cause all we are doing is talking in circles.
Its time to step out of the dark ages and put aside your personal prejudices toward new ideas and actually become a positive change agent for your dept. so that it can operate more effciently, effectively, and yes safely.
Big lines such as the 2 1/2 do have a place as INTERIOR firefighting lines departments nationwide have been using them for decades with great success. The fact your telling everyone on this forum that your dept has no need for these lines on the interior is ridiculous no matter how well you know your district or train there will come a time when the 2 1/2 will be the line you need INTERIOR....I used to be a non beliver as well until I got ran out of a big warehouse with an undersized line for the fire and had to watch as the companies that pulled 2 1/2 put the fire out....not only was it personally embarrising it was profesionally embarrising and irresponsible to make a tactical error of that magnitude.
Maybe the excuse of "we cant win them all" is good enough for you and your FD...and thats fine becuase its true, whats unacceptable is when you could win but chose not to.
Good luck and stay safe and hopefully you will actually learn something from these discussions.
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That tends to indicate that you sometimes wait too long to use 2.5 inch hoselines on the interior.
Putting an extra 100 GPM or more on the fire with the initial interior line can prevent you from eventually needing the extra 5,000 GPM or more on the exterior.
Your insistance on using 2.5 inch on the exterior is dogmatic.
Dogma isn't a very good substitute for good planning, good SOGs, and a good risk-benefit analysis at every fire.
Once again, why insist on taking a pea shooter to a firefight that needs a machine gun, or on saving the machine gun for use after it's an artillery battle?
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Please with for the translation, I made my initial posts distinctly in relation to the thread topic (2.5 as interior) and then the discussion digressed later on.
Once again...I see no need to use 2.5 inside, if the building is that far gone that a 2.5 is needed.
If you wait for someone to translate this,,,,the pattern I see may be broken
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Any chance I can borrow that all seeing eye that allows you to know what I wait to long to do?
Please....I could use some winning lottery numbers.
And my instance to not enter a structure that is so far gone that a 2.5 is needed, may be dogmatic.....but I can live with that (me and my opinions have been called far worse)
And you can knock me and my depts. planning, SOP's and anything else you want.
But until you (or anyone else) can explain to me (and have it make sense) as to why I would/should enter a structure thats that far gone......I will stand by my statements.
DISCLAIMER : if you graced my depts. with your infinite wisdom (and that all seeing eye) and chose to become the Fire Chief here, and threw all the 1.2 in the trash and all we had was 2.5.....I would then have no choice but to use the 2.5 as an interior line.
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HAHAHA....NOT USED ALL THE TIME....OOPS, I mean...oops
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Good golly.....I did mean the ride along......and nope, that wasn't meant as sarcasm (me and my damn incomprehensible babbeling.....I sincerly apologize for that)
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Ben, you stated,
"And...you still didn't give any explanation or science as a point of comparison.
Could it be that despite your claimed successful track record, that there could actually be a better way to do it?
You've already said that your department uses 2.5 inch leader lines. Maybe you should consider using the 2.5 for the first 500 feet of that 600 you just spoke of.
While you're at it, do you advance 600 foot 1.5 inch lines on the interior, and do you charge them prior to or after the stretch.
I've put fires out with a water can, too. That doesn't make using 2.5 inch lines on the interior dangerous or any of the other negative terms you used for it."
My explaination is that I use the attacklines that are on the engine companies I operate on (and the fact that that it what works well for us)
I failed to use any science because alas....I am no scientist.
And my claimed track record is just that.......you caught me, I came here to boast about how good I am and how much better than everyone else I am. And yes.....there is ALWAYS (<---that damned dogmatic response again) a better way to do things...in MY opinion....and thats why I strive to do the best I can ALWAYS, and I am my own worst critic.
But let me ask you this......is there a possibility (ever so slight) that someone might have a different way of doing things than the way you do them.....that could possibly work better for them?
The 600' I spoke of is an extended 350' or 400' (depending on depts.) and making the 400' a 200' 2.5 with a gated wye and 200' 1.5 was tried, and didn't work very well here.
The "leaderlines" are usually made up on the spot as are the "flying standpipes".
We (both depts.) use preconnects almost exclusively (gotta be careful with those type of words) because thats what works here....we have preplanned the areas where the longest line would need to be extended and go over those on a regular basis.....we also go over with our drivers on how and when to make up the "leaderlines" and "flying standpipes" and "most" of them are very profecient at it.
The 600' I spoke of would be the 350' or 400' that then has line added to it (I probibaly didn't make that clear...we have no 600' preconnect on the apparatus) and normally the 350' and 400' are charged after they have been properly flaked out....I say normally because there is always a chance for a mistake.
Under normal circumstances if the line needs to be extended it is known before hand and will be extended, that extra will be flaked out...then the line will be charged.
I hope that explained things a little better....but as always, any questions....just ask
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