Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by gregg robert on February 11, 2009 at 9:21pm

thanks i was'nt sure if it was that or inspection of gear

Permalink Reply by Dale Dittrick on February 16, 2009 at 11:44am

To know their responsibilities, who to follow, what to carry, etc. Know all apparatus, inside and out. If on an engine (pumper) good hose laying and proper terms. If on a ladder (truck company) the tools to carry for each circumstance and all ops. Again, who to follow and what to have ready.

Permalink Reply by Bruce Mack on February 24, 2009 at 7:42pm

Call me stupid but the first few things I train my probies on is: How to wear the gear, after we get that down we spend time on how to work the pager they are issued, than it goes to response safety. even a probie is useless if they do not make it safely to the firehouse, we are killing firefighters in crashes all the time, and they are not all in our rigs. than we progress with them from there but the response safety is really important.

Permalink Reply by Bob Allard on March 16, 2009 at 9:37pm

THANK YOU

Permalink Reply by jake (6672) on March 22, 2009 at 12:17am

i agree on bob with the scba and learning how to take it all apart and putting it back together with your eyes closed and in the dark i took classes at quincy fire college in quincy illinois and we did those drills numerous times

Permalink Reply by Jim Seargent on March 22, 2009 at 2:32pm

penrhyn added...."We wont risk ourselves at all to save lives or property, that are ALREADY LOST."

I have heard that idiom a thousand times, but still fail to understand it. I call it an idiom not to reference a dialect or style, but to the more appropriate meaning of a phase whose meaning cannot be deduced through the literal definition.

If penrhyn's statement, (and I don't attempt to give ownership of the statement to him), were true, then someone MUST explain to me what a human body is. If we risk nothing to save lives or property that are already lost, why is my life put at risk each time I am sent to 100 feet below the surface of the water to recover a dead body? If the statement is true, why is there an Underwater Recovery Team at all? Is it that the circumstances lie outside the expected norm of the fire service so as to not be covered under this noble statement, or is it that the life of a Firefighter/Diver on a team is somehow less valued than a Firefighter who enjoys that status alone?
Is not the response of dog teams in the middle of the night, deployed into the middle of the wood, for the purpose of finding a person believed to be dead, a "risk"?
And lastly, is it not a "risk" to send men and women onto structures, (after the devastation has been done), to do simple pick and peck overhaul jobs under the leadership and command of inferior officers. When the people leading the crew know next to nothing about how to get the job done safely, but yet are trusted with the responsibility of keeping those who do, safe..........There is an unnecessary risk that is never mentioned.

STAY SAFE ALL.........QUESTION METHODS ..........BE THE LEADER

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bolster on March 24, 2009 at 3:41pm

I agree with Eric, probies are going to be outside firefighters first. Learn and relearn the basics. Putting all of your gear on(right). Where everything on your truck is, and when, how to use it. Get hands on with the equipment. To many times probies don't know what we are talking about when asked to do or get something.

Permalink Reply by Marvin Hawk on April 1, 2009 at 5:02am

Well I'll admit that I had to sit and think for a couple of days on what you posted, it definitely gave food for thought. While it may seem cold or callous, a human body is a collection of skin bones and chemicals worth a grand total of about $4.50. It is that part of the human body that we risk nothing for once it is lost.
However there is the soul to each of us that is invaluable and is what separates us from other species. I am convinced that it is compassionate side of the soul which drives each of us that choose this profession, to be willing to take that one extra step to try to make a save or rescue, valuing the worthiness of our fellow man above our own selves.
While I may be wrong I would guess the reason why you still choose to make that 100 foot dive to recover that body is the compassion that you have for the family members of the victim and a desire to bring them some sort of closure.
I don't for a minute place a higher value on one class of firefighter over another, hyphenated or not. Having watched " Men Of Honor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yiMuXj_ayc " enough times to just about quote it, I have a special respect for those of you who think that being a "human submersible" is a cool thing to do, I'll be happy to stay in the 8-12 ft deep end of the local pool.
That said I think that you use a word in what you said that is key to "the rest of the story," the word is recover. Whether the recovery is 100 feet down or in the middle of a dark forest. It is just that a recovery. Recoveries should be well planed out in advance and take every precaution to avoid injury or loss of life to those involved in said recovery, if at anytime that is not possible then the recovery needs to be put on hold until such time as positive control is regained.
I have been involved in a few recoveries over the years and have seen some that were a running cluster....., as well as been in some that looked like they were directed on a back lot in Hollywood, it went so well. Recoveries should not be run on a time limit basis other than constraints on hours of safe operation for the crews involved.
As to the crawling around roofs and buildings on overhaul there is definitely a risk involved. However it again is incumbent on each and every firefighter to be looking out for unsafe conditions and when they arise make them known, after all that is why we have safety officers on a scene but safety still needs to start with the individual firefighter. With that said I will admit that we tend to be our own worst enemies when it comes to backing down from dangerous or unsafe scenes.....after all we don't ever want to be seen as being soft.
I tell the new firefighters in my department when you vote for the leadership of the department ask yourself this question, would I trust this person with my life? If you wouldn't or if you have doubts then you need to vote accordingly. We can no longer let elections or appointments be based on popularity or seniority but instead on ability.
Until we commit ourselves to this, there will unfortunately be times when we do put ourselves at risk. The choice is up to each of us.

Permalink Reply by Nicholas Alexander Wahl on April 1, 2009 at 9:37pm

Honestly being a probie, i have to agree with some of you and disagree. I only get to train once a week. I want more but the station dosent do more. But here would be what i believe to be the most important

Truck Tool locations (knowing all names sizes and some situations that would call for them)
See above
SCBA learning donning doffing emergency sit
Knots
SOP GOP
Hydrants
this is only the start of a list
others like forcible entry breaching egress mayday

Permalink Reply by Jim Seargent on April 1, 2009 at 9:50pm

I like all you said and how you said it. It's refreshing to find a thinking man on the Nation. There are a few people on here I would like to turn you on to.

"when you vote for the leadership of the department ask yourself this question, would I trust this person with my life? If you wouldn't or if you have doubts then you need to vote accordingly. We can no longer let elections or appointments be based on popularity or seniority but instead on ability.
Until we commit ourselves to this, there will unfortunately be times when we do put ourselves at risk. The choice is up to each of us."

Well put and says it all! I hope you don't mind if I use it. I will attach credit to you.

Permalink Reply by Marvin Hawk on April 2, 2009 at 9:19am

Jim:
Glad it met with your approval, feel free to use any of what I said. It's nice to have someone else that thinks proactive is better than reactive.
As far as turning me on to some others here on the Nation I am always open to a good conversation.

Permalink Reply by Peter Lupkowski on April 9, 2009 at 2:19pm

Let's take a step further back in the learning curve...Welcome aboard I'm Pete, I will be your mentor through the first six months of your probationary membership. This is the Chief, his name is...he wears a white coat. That shows he is in charge. We started in 1869 with a hand pulled hose reel...
The last two people that offered to help had no history in the fire service and didn't know an ambulance from an engine. We took nothing for granted after we requisitioned gear for them and they asked if it was "easier to put the boots on first, then the pants or if the pants had to be put on first." It is like a new world for them. Every day new excitement and a new discovery...and it's infectious to "us old guys."

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